Just wanted to know.

Due to some recent posts that have actually made me rethink the reason I post on these blackjack message boards, I'm curious as to what people are thinking about the game. So I have just a few general questions to maybe help me understand what is making some of these people tick. Please, the more info the better, so I hope many will take the time to answer.

1) Do you consider yourself a serious or recreational player? Serious does not have to mean pro, but should mean you are definitely trying to win money everytime you play. Recreational could mean you're just having fun and let the chips fall where they may.

2) What would be your ultimate goal in playing blackjack?

3) What was/is your biggest influence you had/have in learning advantage play?

4) Since you started counting/advantage play have you been satisfied with the results. If yes why, if no why.

5) If you could meet any of the blackjack "greats" who would it be, and why do you consider them great? And what might you ask them or want to talk about?

Thats it, any who choose to answer don't feel you have to answer all the questions, just those that you want to. Have fun with it.

To be the first to answer: 1) i'm a serious recreational player! i play to have fun, try out AP, but with intention to win cash! 2) ultimate goal: win lots of money to pay taxes and buy homes; &/or, get 4 blackjack's in a row! so far havent acheived any. 3) biggest influence: cash!~money!~ skills!~ being advantage play!~ practicing!~ 4) not satisfied yet; it has helped sometimes, but not always and cash doesnt fly from the sky. 5) tough one.

Interesting.

1) Serious, in that I want to win each time. More importantly, I want to see positive results over teh long term. But not 100% serious, because if it stops being fun at all, I'll stop (unless the money gets crazy good, which I don't expect)

2) My goal is to be able to go on vacation to a gambling-oriented place, bet big enough to be treated like a mid-level big shot. Get all kinds of fat comps. Then go home with a good chance of winnings. In other words, I want a vacation that pays me money.

I do not want to play as a sole vocation, which is an important distinction.

3) Honestly, probably this and other interweb message boards have been the biggest influence.

4) Results have been slightly better than expected, in that I didn't lose my starting bankroll. Other than the unusual smoothness of my bankroll curve... about as expected. (well, online bonus hustling was far more lucrative than initially anticipated)

5) Oh man. I enjoy the historical aspects of the art in general. I just ordered a bunch of the old books to try to bone up on the appropriate perspective (just finished Beat the Dealer). So maybe someone old-school, like Dr. Thorp (although his story is fairly well-accounted). Maybe some of the Big Ones who are no longer with us, like Ken Uston and Peter Griffin. Or maybe the four horsemen who developed basic strategy... because still seems like a titanic effort.

The most lucrative conversation would be someone really knowledgeable about casino management and surveillance. Bill Zender is probably the biggest name there.

1) I would consider myself a serious player. I dont consider standing around for long periods backcounting shoes "a fun time", but I do enjoy it. It is definatly the best "job" I have ever had.

2) My ultimate goal is to make money. Down the road, once i'm 100% confident with counting, I'd like to learn more about the game, possibly some advanced techniques.

3) I always enjoyed the game of blackjack, even before I entered a casino, so I did some research. Once I learned about the world of AP there was no way I was going to be a long term loser.

4) Considering the games I am limited to play, yes, I'd say im satisafyed with my results.

Bojack1 said:

Due to some recent posts that have actually made me rethink the reason I post on these blackjack message boards, I'm curious as to what people are thinking about the game. So I have just a few general questions to maybe help me understand what is making some of these people tick. Please, the more info the better, so I hope many will take the time to answer.

1) Do you consider yourself a serious or recreational player? Serious does not have to mean pro, but should mean you are definitely trying to win money everytime you play. Recreational could mean you're just having fun and let the chips fall where they may.

2) What would be your ultimate goal in playing blackjack?

3) What was/is your biggest influence you had/have in learning advantage play?

4) Since you started counting/advantage play have you been satisfied with the results. If yes why, if no why.

5) If you could meet any of the blackjack "greats" who would it be, and why do you consider them great? And what might you ask them or want to talk about?

Thats it, any who choose to answer don't feel you have to answer all the questions, just those that you want to. Have fun with it.

Click to expand...

1. I would say serious - in that I DO want to win every time. I DON'T want to go and have the if I win I win and If I lose I lose attitude.

2. My goal right now would be to be able to count in a casino, but to do that I need to continue to learn and practice.

4. Right now I would say no. I feel I have so much more to learn. I want to learn more - my BS practice on line has me down to 3 errors in 300 hands. But I'm still not where I want/need to be at. Also I should dedicate more time to using cards here at home and practicing that way.


Bojack to read your posts or Sonny's or ZG's (among others) are of help. The tips you guys have here are sometimes just what I need. It really does amaze me how people like you can actually make a living playing BJ. The only thing I seem to notice is the saying "it takes money to make money" to ring true in BJ. It's frustrating to me in that I know I don't have much of a BR but want to play BJ and win.

I guess that would leave me with a question for you Bojack (or those who are AP's and have been for a while). When you were first starting out what was your BR - $200, $500, $1000 or more? Do you think it's possible to succeed at BJ with a starting BR as low as say $200? I look forward to any thoughts you may have.

Bojack1 said:

Due to some recent posts that have actually made me rethink the reason I post on these blackjack message boards, I'm curious as to what people are thinking about the game. So I have just a few general questions to maybe help me understand what is making some of these people tick. Please, the more info the better, so I hope many will take the time to answer.

1) Do you consider yourself a serious or recreational player? Serious does not have to mean pro, but should mean you are definitely trying to win money everytime you play. Recreational could mean you're just having fun and let the chips fall where they may.

2) What would be your ultimate goal in playing blackjack?

3) What was/is your biggest influence you had/have in learning advantage play?

4) Since you started counting/advantage play have you been satisfied with the results. If yes why, if no why.

5) If you could meet any of the blackjack "greats" who would it be, and why do you consider them great? And what might you ask them or want to talk about?

Thats it, any who choose to answer don't feel you have to answer all the questions, just those that you want to. Have fun with it.

Click to expand...

1) Serious in that I don't want to lose,but not serious in if I don't win,I don't eat today

2) I'm hoping to move out west and play BJ both to suppliment my income and pass the time.

3) Jerry Patterson and Angie Marshall are the ones that got me started.Mr Patterson convinced me you could really play Bj at a profit,and Ms Marshall showed me how to have fun doing it.
Max Rubin and Jean Scott are a close second.

4)Thats up in the air.Being so far fromn Vegas,and having shitty games here on the EC is quite frustrating. But circumstances have conspired to keep me here far longer than I expected.

5)I'd enjoy sharing a plane with Mr Thorpe.I'd have a ton of questions for him,but if I could only pick one person,I'd like to have partied with Ken U.

1. Serious
2. Retire young and Retire rich
3. Scotth
4. I have been satisfied taking into account that I am under 21. I have made a lot of money, developed a lot of skills, and had a lot of fun.
5. I want to meet Bojack1 because he is one of the best players in the world and it would be cool to observe what the pros do and how they train and carry themselves.

I too want to know the Bojack story of how he went from novice to pro.

1) Serious. I'm playing for keeps, with enough of my income to make the difference between lower-middle class and upper-middle class. Playing blackjack is not recreational to me. It is a boring and mindless game, compared to the kinds of games I enjoy playing. Memorizing a few matrices and doing some arithmetic at the table is not stimulating. The atmosphere is miserable and unhealthy, and that includes 90% of the people I meet at the table. But it pays.

2) Ultimate goal- to take all of the money out of the gaming industry. I'll grudgingly settle for as much as I can.

3) Research. There is nothing like running your sims, developing your own counts and spreads, and designing your own game plan for a game or for a trip based on your own field and computer research. No book, no guru can substitute for this experience.

4) Satisfied, in that my results have been exactly what they have been predicted to be. Not satisfied, in that I hate losing even when I know it is an inevitable part of the game.

5) Thorp. Before I started playing blackjack I developed for myself an investing technique that gave me strong and consistent results. After I started playing BJ and doing research, I discovered that what I thought I had discovered Thorp had been using on his own managed funds for decades.

1. Serious recreational player. I don't need the money, but it's fun to win.
2. Winning and having fun doing it
3. I really don't remember. I've played once or twice a year when the opportunity has presented (vacations with nearby casinos, etc.) When playing (pre-counting) I only played for short times, understanding the odds were against me. Wanting to play more and not lose, I thought I should liearn to count. I read this board for a few months before deciding which system and which books to read. Thanks to all, espec. Bojack, Sonny and ZG for all there valuable posts (and please continue them.)
4. Yes. I've been winning and having fun. Those are my goals.
5. Not sure, though I'd like to see you, Bojack, in action!

Bojack1 said:

Due to some recent posts that have actually made me rethink the reason I post on these blackjack message boards, I'm curious as to what people are thinking about the game. So I have just a few general questions to maybe help me understand what is making some of these people tick. Please, the more info the better, so I hope many will take the time to answer.

1) Do you consider yourself a serious or recreational player? Serious does not have to mean pro, but should mean you are definitely trying to win money everytime you play. Recreational could mean you're just having fun and let the chips fall where they may.

2) What would be your ultimate goal in playing blackjack?

3) What was/is your biggest influence you had/have in learning advantage play?

4) Since you started counting/advantage play have you been satisfied with the results. If yes why, if no why.

5) If you could meet any of the blackjack "greats" who would it be, and why do you consider them great? And what might you ask them or want to talk about?

Thats it, any who choose to answer don't feel you have to answer all the questions, just those that you want to. Have fun with it.

Click to expand...

1. A serious rec player forever. My goal is in any game I play, to win. How much money is not as important to me as just being able to beat the casino at its own game.

2. Just to have fun but fun to me includes winning.
3. My uncle, a cardcounter way back in the late 40's, who was also table game manager at Hotel National', Havana.
4. I have consistantly made money and have been satisfied to no longer add to my bank and invest the money in other things while not raising my bet level to the point where I would find few places to bet.
5. I would like to know if some like Revere or the 4 Horseman, knew or knew of my uncle.

Good question - might help us all get to know each other a little better.

I consider myself a recreational player who loves the game of BJ and enjoys paying $2/hr for the entertainment. Lord knows I can drink more than that to make it positive EV for me lol. I figured out a long time ago I don't play enough to do the full-monty counting thing. Maybe I go to AC twice a year for a couple days. Maybe Vegas or Tahoe once a year for a week or less. Going for a week in Nov to Vegas this year. I've learned what a forgiving game BJ is and how relatively easy it is to break even.

I don't count and spread because I hate losing losing a few thou alot more than I enjoy winning a few thou. Maybe if I lived out West it might be different.

I enjoy the theory of the game and the theory of counting. I think I could count if I wanted to but I don't see the point in the 8D games I have access to and I don't really want to bet 6D in high roller pits as I don't want to commit the bankroll I feel would be necessary for such a task. Sometimes I play $25 min for the fun of it. Heck, I read Beat the Dealer in 1962 when I was 12 and thought it was pretty cool. Wished I was old enuf to place a bet lol. And had $25 to place it with lol. In 62, $25 was a high-roller lol.

I loved Kenny Uston and $1MM BJ because he was the first to do it, to see the possibilities and do it. A friend of mine I've known for years, I only recently discovered, played on his team in AC in the 70's for a summer.

I learned hi-lo from Wong. I learned alot of what little I think I know from Don Schlesinger's books. I love his mathematical approach. Another giant.

I've read them all, just for the fun of it. The game keeps changing and it's tough to keep up sometimes.

About the only thing I actually do with counting, other than to signal my wife "it's a good time to bet big", which means go from $5 to $15 lol, and then get yelled at because she loses, is use the Uston APC count to count down a deck and predict the last card much to the amazement of my friends lol.

Also I would like to give a lot of credit to Norm. His software is absolutely the best to learn counting. The guy's just another one of those freaking geniuses that we are lucky to have access to. Thanks Norm.

And Kenny - hey - you don't need me to tell you how much you've meant to the modern player. Especially regarding tournament play which I find fascinating. When are you gonna write your book?

So I sit at $10 tables, count for diversion to pass the time, bet a little more (but not near what's called for) in plus counts, make a few index plays to shake up the table and hopefully come home with a couple hundred more than I left with. Which means paying for the trip and really breaking even lol. It's really pretty silly - I bring a couple thou and usually never need more than $200 lol.

My hat's off to all you counters - it ain't easy if u ask me.

I have played alot of BJ on the internet. There you have games with rules that don't exist in "real-life". So you learn from that too. Internet gambling was my living for over 5 years. Who needs to count when they just give you so many tens of thousands of dollars. But now I got legislated out of a job thanks to the Neo-Nazi bible-thumping hypocritical Republicans.

Bojack - I gather you're on a team. Or it's your team? Anyway, I'm new here so if u want to maybe answer your own questions too, that'd be cool! What was it about recent posts that made u rethink why u post on these boards?
What was your reason for posting before u recently re-thought it?

If I answer your survey, do I get entered into a draw for $500?

Bojack1 said:

1) Do you consider yourself a serious or recreational player?

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By your definition, serious. I'm only playing when I'm going to the casino, rather than going to the casino to play. But (as you'll see from #3), when I go, I want to be able to win.

2) What would be your ultimate goal in playing blackjack?

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Hard to say, since I don't see myself having a real final goal. I'd like to play at an advantage each and every time I have chips in my hand and cards in front of me. I want to learn to do something that everyone's heard of, but not many people do, and even fewer do well. I'd like to win some money. I suppose that winning a crapton of money-- say, taking a $10k bankroll and tripling it in one session, would make me think "Well, I'd say that worked beyond expectation. I'll stop now." and then just play AP Recreational.

3) What was/is your biggest influence you had/have in learning advantage play?

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This I can pinpoint. Before AP, I played Blackjack exactly three times in a casino. Twice I flatbet and lost. The third time I had some crazy-ass homebrew progression double-down system that struck lucky and won me $300. At the same time, I was taking a programming course that dealt with recursive systems as a means to solve problems. I wanted to know the real odds of Blackjack. Given every possible hand, how often can a player expect to win? What if they tried different strategies (never bust, mimic dealer, dealer always has 10).

Turns out, I'm lazy. So rather than programming it myself, I just looked it up on the Internet. At the same time, I wanted to know "what the hell is this card counting thing I keep hearing of?". From there I learned all about basic strategy, The Wizard of Odds, Ed Thorpe, and here. I was a bit shocked to learn that every game in a casino had a built in loss (I was naieve!). As I mentioned, when I play, I play to win. I'm fine with losing if I'm genuinely outclassed or outplayed. But I stoutly refuse to play a game where, no matter what I do, I WILL lose. ("I don't believe in the no-win scenario ").

So I started reading, and asking questions when I couldn't find an answer. I learned BS. I learned to count down a deck in 30 seconds. I bought myself a bunch of decks and a shoe, and cracked out my poker chips.

Then I learned about bankrolls, and RoR, and Kelly criterion.

Somehow, I feel I'll always be learning and practicing. I don't believe there is a definitive point where I turn from "non-AP" to "Fully Completely AP".

4) Since you started counting/advantage play have you been satisfied with the results. If yes why, if no why.

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Hell, yes. Why? My last pre-AP session, I played three hands. Versus a dealer 2, I doubled a 5, split 10s, and doubled an A2. At a CSM table. You count the things wrong with that scenario.

Since then, I've learned to count, and have done it, successfully, in a live casino-- while talking to a pit critter the whole time. I've educated myself on what the inside of a casino is really like.

5) If you could meet any of the blackjack "greats" who would it be, and why do you consider them great? And what might you ask them or want to talk about?

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To be perfectly honest, there isn't really any of the greats I want to meet. I'm grateful for their knowledge-- but the knowledge is there to be had. Anything that hasn't been published, talked about, videoed, or talked about all over the net either: 1) Isn't worth knowing or 2) Isn't going to be talked about, period.

When it comes down to it, if I had the choice of talking to a "great", or having this message board, I'd chose the board 100% of the time. YOU guys are the greats I want to talk to, to listen to, to learn from. Between reading old threads, and posting a couple of my own, I've learned more over the past 4 months than I ever would have by talking to one great.

So, Bojack, if you're ever wondering why you hang out here-- if for no other reason, I hope that means something. Though I cannot vouch for everyone, I know the input you and the other members put into this board is a resource beyond value. Thank you.

1) I consider myself a recreational player that has high aspirations to become a serious/pro player when I get older (I'm in college). I have just started learning to count and play as an AP. I love playing BS and I LOVE being at the table and meeting people and having fun while making money

2) I'm not 100% sure as to my ultimate goal as of yet, but I know I want to make BIG money as an AP. At some point in my life I probably want to be a Professional, and I definitely want to be a part of/start some teams.

3) My Blackjack Influences? The "Breaking Vegas" DVD at my local library about the MIT team, Kevin Blackwood's books, this forum, and the wanting to make alot of money

4) I have not really started my journey as an AP yet, but I am probably down in the long run but have alot of fun doing it

5) I would absolutely kill a man to meet Kevin Blackwood and Arnold Snyder. They are my heroes.

Bojack1 said:

Due to some recent posts that have actually made me rethink the reason I post on these blackjack message boards, I'm curious as to what people are thinking about the game. So I have just a few general questions to maybe help me understand what is making some of these people tick. Please, the more info the better, so I hope many will take the time to answer.

Click to expand...

great questions......

Bojack1 said:

1) Do you consider yourself a serious or recreational player? Serious does not have to mean pro, but should mean you are definitely trying to win money everytime you play. Recreational could mean you're just having fun and let the chips fall where they may.

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a serious recreational player. it's all about the benjamins baby. no benjamins no fun.

Bojack1 said:

2) What would be your ultimate goal in playing blackjack?

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the more benjamins the better.

Bojack1 said:

3) What was/is your biggest influence you had/have in learning advantage play?

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the people on this board and other boards plus books and software.

Bojack1 said:

4) Since you started counting/advantage play have you been satisfied with the results. If yes why, if no why.

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extremely satisfied. because of the accumulated benjamins and i find the application and study of counting/advantage play fun.

Bojack1 said:

5) If you could meet any of the blackjack "greats" who would it be, and why do you consider them great? And what might you ask them or want to talk about?

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truly i get a great kick out of every one that plays blackjack. but as far as the greats i'd enjoy meeting any of the authors and for that matter the folks who post on this board excepting for cypher. i'd ask about the unknown secrets that i just know are out there.

1) Serious, I want to win everytime I play.

2) My short term BJ goal is to get a big enough bankroll to support all the studying and practice I've put in - in a casino.

3) This forum. One or two threads in particular come to mind that just got me hooked. EasyRhino's "man this counting stuff is hard" really just sucked me in and inspired me. it may sound cheesy, well tough $hit.

4) Definitiely. Having some degree of predictive power over the game is pretty darn cool, even when it doesn't work out in my favor. I find counting to be pretty metnally stimulating right now and counting serves as a good destraction for me for a lot of other crap I have to deal with at the moment. I've always liked blackjack, but had never stepped foot into a casino until 6 months ago. Once I knew I could learn to beat the game --- downhill slope to here

5) I'd like to spend an hour in a casino with anyone who could shuffle track.

[/QUOTE]

1) Very serious. I never put a bet out unless i have the advantage.
2) To grow my bankroll to the point where i can sustain myself off playing.
3) Without a doubt the MIT team. The players on that team took the game to a whole new level, showing what truely perfected skill can achieve. I have been fortunate enough to talk to several members in the past and have walked away every time with plenty to think about. In more recent time (the last few months or so) i've found my conversations with yourself very sitmulating and they have pushed me to become the best i can be.
4) No. My results fall well within expected varience, and truth told the fairly positive side of varience, but for the time being i'm playing with far less money than i'd like. Very frustrating. Also, no matter how good i get, i always feel a could be better with more practice. To be satisfied is to become complacent.
5) I've had the opertunity to talk to MIT Mike on a couple of occasions, so i guess you could say i've already achieved this, but the chance to play with Mike and Johnny C's one that i'd chew my left leg off for (i've always got a spare lol). Even just to be put through the tests by these guys would be an honor.

RJT.

Bojack1 said:

Due to some recent posts that have actually made me rethink the reason I post on these blackjack message boards, I'm curious as to what people are thinking about the game. So I have just a few general questions to maybe help me understand what is making some of these people tick. Please, the more info the better, so I hope many will take the time to answer.

1) Do you consider yourself a serious or recreational player? Serious does not have to mean pro, but should mean you are definitely trying to win money everytime you play. Recreational could mean you're just having fun and let the chips fall where they may.

2) What would be your ultimate goal in playing blackjack?

3) What was/is your biggest influence you had/have in learning advantage play?

4) Since you started counting/advantage play have you been satisfied with the results. If yes why, if no why.

5) If you could meet any of the blackjack "greats" who would it be, and why do you consider them great? And what might you ask them or want to talk about?

Thats it, any who choose to answer don't feel you have to answer all the questions, just those that you want to. Have fun with it.

Click to expand...

hmmm i wonder if it was my comment that prompted this :devil:

1)SERIOUS! i don't have fun gambling at -EV. in my entire life i've never bought a lottery ticket, and have never played a -EV game (5 bucks in slots my first time in a casino is the eception). I enjoy gambling to the max when i'm playing with an advantage so BJ does become recreation for me (i'd almost always rather go play BJ than watch a movie). Therefore, blackjack is strickly recreation for me, in the sense that i don't plan to make a lot of money doing it. My education comes frist.

2) learn to shuffle track and do the cut card. but yeah, earn madd dollas and get airfare comped. :cool2: this summer i am only gambling (ie no job) so lets see what i can pull... my goal is 10,000 for the summer, wish me luck.

3) this site

4) not enough in casino experience, but fairly satisfied (ie. its been a LOT of fun, and i've made a teeny bit of money too)

bluewhale said:

My education comes frist.

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and blackjack is a close sceond.

i couldn't resist.... shame on me.

1) I am a serious player. I don’t sit down unless I know the rules and know that I can beat them.

2) My ultimate goal is to become the greatest player I can be. At first it was all about the money. But as I became a better player I realized that it was mostly about pride. It made me feel confident and proud of my achievements. From there I got a little obsessive. I began reading every book I could find and posting on every website I knew of. I spent hours practicing with Norm’s software and made countless spreadsheets. I don’t know what it was, but something inside of me just wouldn’t let me stop. There was so much to learn and I wanted to know it all. To be honest, blackjack has really surprised me. I’ve never felt such fiery ambition for anything else in my life. I don’t know why I’m so obsessed, but something keeps pushing me to practice and to learn more. If only I had this kind of passion for my day job! :laugh:

So my goal? I want to be able to walk into any casino in the world and know that I can beat them somehow. I want to know that my skills are as sharp as they can be. I know that I’ll never be as good as some of the masters, but I absolutely must be as great as I can be.

3) My biggest influence has been these websites. Being able to talk to pro-level players and others who are out there “doing the work” has been a huge encouragement. I’ve been lucky enough to meet a few of the MIT guys and one of the old Uston team members, but the combined knowledge available on these websites is incredibly valuable.

4) I am very satisfied with the results. I’ve made some decent money and acquired some valuable skills.

5) There are so many people I’d love to meet. I’d love to talk with Schlesinger about theory or Grosjean about hole carding, but probably the most valuable advice comes from guys like iHate17, Bojack and AutoMonkey. They give me the help and encouragement I need to reach the next level.

-Sonny-

Seems few non AP players answered, so here's one.

1) Do you consider yourself a serious or recreational player? Serious does not have to mean pro, but should mean you are definitely trying to win money everytime you play. Recreational could mean you're just having fun and let the chips fall where they may.


Recreational and am happy to walk away even (including +EV for drinks and -EV for tips), but it sure is better when you win.

2) What would be your ultimate goal in playing blackjack?

Mostly just having fun, but nice to do better than other not very good players who come and go after losing their a$$. With quite an effort have improved skill to where I play perfect BS. After reading mostly here the realities of variance, RoR, bankroll size needed, and bet-spread doubt I will ever move into AP. I could come up with a decent bankroll, but don't want to risk it at this point in life or put in the effort to move to another level. Not sure I have the talent anyway.

3) What was/is your biggest influence you had/have in learning advantage play?

This board for explaining so much, CV Blackjack for practice.

4) Since you started counting/advantage play have you been satisfied with the results. If yes why, if no why.

For what I do, yes.

5) If you could meet any of the blackjack "greats" who would it be, and why do you consider them great? And what might you ask them or want to talk about?


Probably Uston or Wong since they were ground breakers who changed the face of the game. More recent greats ... the MIT Team majors since the story was so fascinating.