my count is off, what gives?

OK, so I saw the movie 21 and now I am hooked on counting. I understand the basic concepts of counting however, let me state them so someone can correct me if I am wrong:

2-6 = +1
7,8,9 = 0
10,J,Q,K,Ace = -1

Starting from 0 counting up or down the number line based on the card drawn. Here is where my question begins. I shuffle the deck, and pull a random card and place it face down on the table (do not look at the card). I count the deck and then I should be able to guess the range of the card based on the count? Anything in the plus range should be 2-6, anything in the 0 range should be 7,8,9 and so on? I cant seem to get that right and I know I am counting correctly so what gives? Help me please its driving me CRAZY!

snooprobbierob said:

OK, so I saw the movie 21 and now I am hooked on counting. I understand the basic concepts of counting however, let me state them so someone can correct me if I am wrong:

2-6 = +1
7,8,9 = 0
10,J,Q,K,Ace = -1

Starting from 0 counting up or down the number line based on the card drawn. Here is where my question begins. I shuffle the deck, and pull a random card and place it face down on the table (do not look at the card). I count the deck and then I should be able to guess the range of the card based on the count? Anything in the plus range should be 2-6, anything in the 0 range should be 7,8,9 and so on? I cant seem to get that right and I know I am counting correctly so what gives? Help me please its driving me CRAZY!

Click to expand...

if when you get to the end of the deck you have a count of plus one then that card you pulled randomly and set aside should be either a ace, a face or a ten. and yeah if the count is zero after all the cards were counted then that unknown set aside card is a neutral card ie. a 7,8,9 and if the count is minus one after you count all the cards then the unknown set aside is like you say either 2,3,4,5,6 .
the end result of your count of the entire deck plus the value of the unknown card should always be zero.
so you liked the movie? it inspired you to give this a try? just curious.

reply

Yep, loved the movie but I also like numbers too. I like logic stuff and honestly I go to bed thinking about counting and wake up thinking about it. I carry a deck of cards with me and just work flipping through the deck and when I have a spare moment I like to do it just to see how fast I can do it and keep up. I can honestly tell you I am scared to gamble (cuz I'm cheap) so who knows if I will ever actually use this in a Casino however, I cant wait till we have some Casino nights.
I count the way you said and I hardley ever end up with the right card on the table. I know I must be adding or subtracting the wrong way...if my count is say +5 and I flip a 10 then my count would be +4 correct? Also, when I hit say +1 and I flip a 10 that should put my count at 0 correct?

When you get to the end, you have to ask yourself what kind of card will get the count to zero.

Got It!

OK, well...that makes sence...shoulda thought of that!! OK, so if I end the count on say a + then I need a - to even the count?

snooprobbierob said:

OK, well...that makes sence...shoulda thought of that!! OK, so if I end the count on say a + then I need a - to even the count?

Click to expand...

Yup, you got it.

a) inspect the deck you're playing with. You should have four aces, four deuces, four threes, etc.

b) Read a book. Blackjack Bluebook by Fred Renzey is probably a good intro. A movie is not a sufficient intro to counting. The book "breaking vegas" is not sufficient, either.

c) Count down every card EXCEPT the last card. You should be able to predict if it's high, medium, or low. If you're getting this wrong, and you have a full deck, then you need more practice.

OK I got it down baby!

You are right, a movie is not enough to teach how to count (there are other things I needed to know). After I realized that I was making the mistake my count is on like donkey kong! I try to count with talk radio turned up so I can have back ground noise, so far so good. I am counting a deck in under a minute so I feel good (for just starting out). Where its gunna get dicey is trying to count multiple decks.
I hear most Casinos use like 4.5 decks is that true? How do you do the conversion on multiple decks?
This gets addicting doesnt it?

snooprobbierob said:

You are right, a movie is not enough to teach how to count (there are other things I needed to know). After I realized that I was making the mistake my count is on like donkey kong! I try to count with talk radio turned up so I can have back ground noise, so far so good. I am counting a deck in under a minute so I feel good (for just starting out). Where its gunna get dicey is trying to count multiple decks.
I hear most Casinos use like 4.5 decks is that true? How do you do the conversion on multiple decks?
This gets addicting doesnt it?

Click to expand...

the most common number of decks used are 1deck, 2decks, 4decks, 6decks and 8decks. rare to find a decent 1deck game though. beware of 6:5 games!
also beware of poor rules, poor penetration (the actual #decks out of a multiple deck pack the casino will deal) and watch out for continuous shuffle machines. automatic shuffle machines are ok.
but anyway when your practicing counting down a deck as you are the count you are getting is what we call the RC or running count. so typically what one might do when dealing with multiple decks is determine what we call the TC or true count. where TC = RC/(#of decks not seen) .
see the RC is not as closley asscociated with the advantage you are going to get from counting cards. where as the TC is much more closely asscociated to the advantage that we can get by counting cards. the true count gives you a easier way to realize degree to which the cards remaining to be dealt are either richer or poorer in the high value cards to low value cards. and what we want is to have a high ratio of aces, faces and tens left to be dealt from the unseen cards since that gives us our best chances of getting a pat normal hand, more succesful double downs than unsuccesul and more blackjacks. so what we do is bet higher proportionally and optimally according to those conditions.
yeah it can be a lot of fun but don't say i said so lol. you gotta be real, real careful in this game.

snooprobbierob said:

I hear most Casinos use like 4.5 decks is that true?

Click to expand...

They can't only put in half a deck or that would be cheating. I just know casinos use full decks like 4 or 5, but not 4 decks plus 10 cards from another. Is it considered cheating if a casino does this without telling you?

rollem411 said:

They can't only put in half a deck or that would be cheating. I just know casinos use full decks like 4 or 5, but not 4 decks plus 10 cards from another. Is it considered cheating if a casino does this without telling you?

Click to expand...

Yes.

Playing a game with 6 decks, but only dealing out 4.5 of them before the shuffle, would be a very typical game in an average casino.

Ok

So I understand what they mean now by 4.5 decks. So lets say the Casino starts with 6 decks and after they deal out 4.5 they reshuffle? How does this jack with my Chi (pronounced chee, gotta have a little fun with this mind-f@ck stuff).
Also, to clearify..when the count say is +6 do I look at the next card that should come out as a - card? Do they work inverse of one another, meaning if the count is - then + start flowing out?

snooprobbierob said:

How does this jack with my Chi

Click to expand...

It turns it into a Chi Square! :laugh: Sorry, I couldn’t resist the statistical pun.

snooprobbierob said:

Do they work inverse of one another, meaning if the count is - then + start flowing out?

Click to expand...

That’s the idea behind card counting. When a lot of small cards have come out you know that the remaining cards are mostly high cards, and vice versa.

-Sonny-

Word up

OK, so now I know how to keep my Chi alive, where would you suggest to go to practice without getting my ass handed to me? Also, I heard on another thread about something called counting detection...whats up with that? How do you adjust for more than one deck?

snooprobbierob said:

where would you suggest to go to practice without getting my ass handed to me?

Click to expand...

On your computer. There is plenty of software programs that will let you practice for free until you are good enough to try playing in a casino.

snooprobbierob said:

How do you adjust for more than one deck?

Click to expand...

If you are using a balanced system then you have to convert the running count to the true count by dividing by the number of decks (or half-decks, quarter-decks or whatever). This is covered in most BJ books. Read through the Free Resources sticky thread at the top of this forum for more information on true counts and betting strategies.

-Sonny-

snooprobbierob said:

OK, so now I know how to keep my Chi alive, where would you suggest to go to practice without getting my ass handed to me? Also, I heard on another thread about something called counting detection...whats up with that?

Click to expand...

this is where you need to keep your chi alive my man. the casino doesn't want you counting so they will be watching for those of us who go ahead and count anyway. use that chi in your demeanor while you count so those watching don't have a clue. the casino might restrict your play or not allow you even in the casino if they decide your game is to good for their game.

snooprobbierob said:

How do you adjust for more than one deck?

Click to expand...

check this post again snoop. it's got the basic idea of how to adjust for more than one deck.
http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showpost.php?p=74436&postcount=9