Pretty Ironic

Alright I had a funny experience with another AP last night, or at least that what he claimed to be. The backround of the story goes like this. My girlfriends best friend is dating this new guy and they all planned to go out last night to a casino so we could meet this guy and have a nice night out. Although my girlfriends friend knows what I do, it was supposed to be kept quiet that I am a professional player at least for the evening. No problem, most people don't understand right off the bat anyway.

The ironic thing is the reason this guy wants to go to the casino is because it turns out he fancies himself a card counter and I guess he thought it would be fun to bring everyone along too observe. I didn't realize all of this until the car ride to the casino. On the way there (just about a 2 hour drive) he started talking about how he plays BJ with an advantage and was explaining how it works. I think my ribs were just about broken from the elbows in my side from my girl to keep my mouth shut, but he did really have a good grasp of the game and it seemed he at least knew what he was talking about.

We get up there and have a great dinner, and as I was already resigned to the fact that I couldn't really play at this place under the current conditions I was looking to enjoy myself with some drinks and listen to the band playing. This guy would not have any of it, he wanted us to all to go in the casino and benefit from his knowledge. Well the powers that be got me into the casino to watch the guy play. I had to convince him that I don't play and that I would just watch a little bit. Well the the first shoe he flat bets through the whole thing. I counted that shoe and the count was 6 when the cut card came out at 1 1/2 decks. A pretty damn good bet should've been out there. He gets up and walks over to us to tell us that the count never was any good and that it ended at -2. Really. I watch another shoe and and he screws it up again so I just walk away and head to the bar. Before I get 10 steps I'm getting dragged back to watch him as he switches tables. The next shoe really shows no advantage but he raises his bets and gets lucky and wins nicely on the shoe. I think, man you should leave now. The next shoe divebombs to the point he should just leave but he starts raising his bets in almost a positive progression type way, and he wins again. Lucky boy. I had to ask him what he thought the count was at the end of the shoe and he told me 8. Holy crap it was -10! Not only did he reverse the count he was off on it too. I had seen enough. My girl and I went and had a few drinks and waited for rainman to finish his onslaught of the casino.

He finished up about an hour later with a small win and the bragging rights on how he can beat the casino. The whole point of this story is, how many counters out there are really as good as they think. This guy thinks he's got it down. To talk to him you'd think so too, but to watch him play, its awful. I hope that this story doesn't describe too many here, it seems to me it happens more than one would suspect though. On the ride home as he was explaining his win to us I asked him how much he has won in total from playing blackjack. He said he doesn't really keep track that closely, he just knows he wins more than loses. No kidding, I've never heard that one before.

That was you? Damn,four hours in a car together and I learn this on the internet.

Was he using the same count as yours?

jack said:

Was he using the same count as yours?

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Allegedly.

Bojack1 said:

Allegedly.

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Which count?

I bet you enjoyed having to sit there and watch this guy... lol. Too funny, but also the moral behind the story is probably true for many and unfortunately these people may educate others and as the story goes.. lose more then they should have in the first place...

Sounds typical. I guess there is book smart and street smart. But I am a firm believer in tough love, maybe a quick bitch slap type of lesson was in order for him to show him, he really needs to focus more.

lessons learned

Your story was a good lesson in accuracy and practical use of systems. Systems are useless and may do a counter harm if accuracy is not accurate. The great debate of unbalanced vs balanced with tc conversion comes to mind. Even though off hand I don't remeber which system you use your accuracy is obviouslly much better than the so called expert you were forced to endure. blackchipjim

You guyz are missing the real lesson of the story.
The guy won. Even though his count was off and he was betting all wrong,just the confidence he gained by thinking he was an advantage player was enough to cause The Sacred Flow to flow in his favor.
Being an advantage player is 90% mental toughness. The other half is luck.
Remember this- God loves and watchs over fools. Why else would he make so many of them?

I have to wonder if the guy actually did have his count reversed. I mean, if he's confusing a -10 count for 8, maybe the poor lad thinks you're supposed to add X-A and subtract on 2-6?

I can think of only one other possibility; the guy was utterly full of sh*t and just made up a number when asked.

Quick, someone calculate the RoR on this style of play!

vQ

shadroch said:

You guyz are missing the real lesson of the story.
The guy won. Even though his count was off and he was betting all wrong,just the confidence he gained by thinking he was an advantage player was enough to cause The Sacred Flow to flow in his favor.
Being an advantage player is 90% mental toughness. The other half is luck.

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My sincere apologies if I'm missing blatant sarcasm but you're not really suggesting that his confidence in his play was helpful ...are you?

vQ

vonQuux said:

My sincere apologies if I'm missing blatant sarcasm but you're not really suggesting that his confidence in his play was helpful ...are you?

vQ

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you are missing the blatant sarcasm.

vonQuux said:

...
I can think of only one other possibility; ...

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I can think of another. :devil:

bluewhale said:

you are missing the blatant sarcasm.

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Are you suggesting that confidence,or lack of it,doesn't affect The Sacred Flow of The Cards?

Did he win or did he leave after a win? What bojack asked him after the fact was a great question " how much have you won all together " He could not answer.

This is so common but at least the guy had a understanding of how to do it which is pretty sweet. Also, how much more could he of walked away with if he was playing correctly? There is also the point that bojack made in there. The table rules were not playable. All red flags. Did he win or was he hiding the fact that he lost count but wanted to impress his friends.

Aint no thing but, Its just all to common to see. With enough time at the tables in Vegas and other places I see it all to often but want to bite my lip and just watch these people blow their money.

shadroch said:

You guyz are missing the real lesson of the story.
The guy won. Even though his count was off and he was betting all wrong,just the confidence he gained by thinking he was an advantage player was enough to cause The Sacred Flow to flow in his favor.
Being an advantage player is 90% mental toughness. The other half is luck.
Remember this- God loves and watchs over fools. Why else would he make so many of them?

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vonQuux said:

I have to wonder if the guy actually did have his count reversed. I mean, if he's confusing a -10 count for 8, maybe the poor lad thinks you're supposed to add X-A and subtract on 2-6?

I can think of only one other possibility; the guy was utterly full of sh*t and just made up a number when asked.

Quick, someone calculate the RoR on this style of play!

vQ

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he probably watched that clip of twenty one where it was explained how to tag the cards tens & aces plus one, small cards minus one. then again maybe he had a stroke or something lol. :joker:
but von this is probably not a good example of how bad your count can be to where you might as well just use basic strategy.
chuck one up for me though at least he wasn't using the fuzzy count.
hey Bojack this has got to go down as one of the best of the blackjackinfo forum stories.

I Believe the Moral of this story is, dont believe everything you hear. The Truth is a funny thing. The fact is, wether your 10yrs old or 50yrs old, you have to have Talent to beat this game. Along with proper Game Selection and Adequate Bankroll. Personally I dont call myself an AP, because of the fact that Ive never Succeded in a Casino enviroment. And until I do, Ill remain with the same Demeanor. My fantasies about being enshrined into the BJ hall of fame, along with Wealth and Fortune are Long gone:laugh: Over the years Reality has Creept its way in. Pure and Simple!

As for myself, I personally do not Brag about being a Card-Counter. Most People just dont Listen, and even if they did Listen, they wouldnt Understand, and even If they did Listen and Understand they Still wouldnt care. Their are many different levels of skill out there. Just like the skill Level of "lets say" a Musician. Some are good, Some are not! Then theirs everything In-between. And even then theirs times Decisions have to be made. To fold or not to fold? To run or to stay and be Killed.

One of two things will Happen with Bo's friend. 1. He either has the Talent to win or 2.He dont. Its that simple.

But if there ever was a Definition for Irony, here it is. The ones that Usually do the Bragging are Usually the same ones that dont succeed.

jack said:

...... Their are many different levels of skill out there. Just like the skill Level of "lets say" a Musician. Some are good, Some are not! Then theirs everything In-between.......

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that's a fun analogy. i once tryed to learn how to play the harmonica. lol and i got the notes down. so i play this little tune for a friend. he tells me how he hears the notes but where's the music. i put the harmonica down and never tryed again. the other night i was listening to PBS on the way to play blackjack at this joint. it had some high falooting guitar player on there twanging out these classical notes. very impressive i guess. but music? NOT.
maybe blackjack advantage play gambling isn't anything like that. maybe it's just all math and at best synthesized music as an analogy. but sometimes you get this sense of really being in the groove or in the proverbial zone so to speak win or lose. that's when it's like making music. maybe it's not all you and how you play but also a lot of external factors that just happen to fall in place to compliment your actions. still you gotta do something right at the right time lol and doubtless most will play a sour note from time to time as well. the thing is maybe for a musician is what you want is that you play the music it doesn't play you. to me for my way of thinking at this point it like that with advantage play and the gamble involved. the point being master the gamble don't let it master you. not that i can do it either j jackson but thats sort of the goal for me at the present.

Great post Bojack. Funny stuff.

Surprising though you didn't recognize his camo cover-betting coinciding with his sly switch to Fuzzy Counting utilizing Fuzzy Betting when the heat was on.

Since they didn't kick him out, it obviously worked lol.

Like any good CC knows you don't want to burn those bridges.