Beating CSMs

zengrifter

Banned
Some of you saw 'NUMB3RS' last week on CBS and how the college nerds beat the CSMs (they cheated). For those who haven't read how I beat the 1st-generation CSMs in 1987, here is that excerpt. zg

Excerpt from Zengrifter Interview -

You’ve claimed to be possibly the first player to have found a way to beat continuous shuffling machines. When did this come about? Can you reveal the details of your discovery?

The year was mid-1987 and two first generation ‘CSM’ prototypes were installed at the Las Vegas Golden Nugget. When I first saw the units, I thought to myself "the end is near!" I wouldn't think of playing against the infernal things, but I noted that they were quite popular - players who liked them did so for the same reason that the casino liked them - no wasted time shuffling. It was clear to me that the machines were unbeatable.

On subsequent visits to the Nugget, I had several opportunities to look inside the machines - they were often open because they would jam frequently, requiring floor personnel to prod inside with a pencil or pen. Even after peering inside several times, I did not readily perceive any weakness or vulnerability.

Early one morning several weeks later, as I collapsed into bed at my rented high-rise condo at the prestigious Marie Antoinette after an extreme negative-flux that previous evening, I thought of the CSMs as I fell asleep. In that almost sleeping alpha-wave state the answer hit me like a brick and jolted me awake - in an instant I knew that those machines were the most beatable blackjack games in town!

The 'gestalt' or full perspective of the CSM's inner workings, in light of my blackjack knowledge, was dramatic and immediate: what I realized was that the machines contained only three decks - and the only shuffle process involved about one-third of a deck at a time, a total of nine segments that, in turn, were not being further mixed together - nine distinct segments that maintained distinct count characteristics, changing only slightly and gradually, as the CSM cycled them around perpetually.

My first stop was the Nugget’s health spa, still the best in town for my money, and by the time I got out of the steam bath, excited, alert and confident, I had the whole process clearly mapped in my cerebrum. It was a simple matter of identifying the two or three high-plus segments and locating them as the three decks cycled round and round like a merry-go-round…simply a matter of counting the number of hands between high count segments.

The pit was relaxed and unconcerned about advantage play at the CSM tables; clearly they were of the mind-set that they could not be beaten by counters. I spread my bets wildly between segments sometimes only betting $10 and other times betting two or three hands of $300-$500. After my first three hours I was up over $6,000, and I graciously accepted a comp for three at the gourmet room that evening as well as my lunch buffet.

I played the CSMs four more times in the course of 14 days for a total of 15 hours and accumulated nearly $12,000.

You were killing them! Did you finally catch heat?

On my next to last play I began to get some scrutiny and spotted a pit-critter observing me from behind a nearby pillar. Eventually he came forward and introduced himself. He was Asian and coincidentally his name was Wong, the ‘Senior 21 Games Director' at the Golden Nugget. Mr. Wong was friendly and told me that my betting style was "unique."

I feigned flattery and introduced myself as a "mechanical engineer" from California. I told Wong that I had invented “a new betting system” that was based on “progressions and rhythms.” I also told him that I had run the so-called basic strategy from "that ‘Harvard’ professor ‘Eric’ Thorp" on my computer at work, and that I found “serious errors” in it -hence, I had created "my own” correct strategy that I "could prove” afforded the house “less than a 1.5% advantage!”

I also explained that my unique progression/rhythm betting scheme would of course not win in the long run, but that it “will win in the short run!" Further, I had elected to concentrate my play on the new shuffling shoes because they allowed me to “get into the short run faster and stay in the short run longer!" Wong liked my answer, and I schmoozed another gourmet room comp from him, this time for four.

After my fourth and final play, and another $3,000 win, a curious thing happened - I headed south on Las Vegas Boulevard and was pulled over by a metro squad car. The solo sergeant checked my ID, while saying that I hadn't committed any traffic violations, and he did not cite me. The adolescent in me could not resist asking him if he knew former Las Vegas police detective Bob Griffin, the head of the industry's most pernicious detective agency. He acknowledged that Griffin was "a friend" and I told him to "say hello for me."

Years later I would learn that a sophisticated team held back for nearly 18 months, waiting for the machines to become more proliferate and management even more comfortable, and then hit the Nugget and Mirage hard in late 1989 for an "upper six figures” amount.

Needless to say, today's CSMs are nothing like those 1st generation models...
or are they?


Well, I’ve recently hypothesized that the ‘Random Ejection’ model ‘handheld-multideck’ - so called ‘Fak1' and ‘Fak2’ games - may very well be beatable on the theory that they ONLY shuffle one or two decks at a time - segments that maintain their proximate order - similar to the method that I used on the first generation CSMs.

- END Excerpt -
 

Quinc

Well-Known Member
wow zen your my hero...but that does nothing for us.. you should tell us how the nerds beat the csm this time. :D
 

zengrifter

Banned
They cheated - the random algorithm was provided to them... BUT note the last para above regarding Fak1-Fak2 games. zg
 

ssho88

Member
How about new model, SHUFFLE MASTER KING & One2Six ?

hi, zg

How about the new model, SHUFFLE MASTER KING & One2Six ? Is it beatable ?

cheers

ssho88
 

zengrifter

Banned
ssho88 said:
hi, zg How about the new model, SHUFFLE MASTER KING & One2Six ? Is it beatable ? cheers ssho88
The One2Six I thought was just a prop in the NUMB3RS show... but NO not practically speaking... I have read some theories, but I don't really understand them. BUT the fak1 and fak2 games are still around. zg
 

Pierre

New Member
One2Six

I know this topic is quite old, but could you point me to that information about the One2Six? They are very popular where I (used to) play.

Maybe, just maybe... :D
 

la_dee_daa

Well-Known Member
well i kinda know how the one2six works...

50 slots on a ferris wheel...a resevior which these slots are ejected into to be delt out i think lifo.... when putting the cards back in they are indivudally ejected into a random slot.....

i beleive if i remember correctly each slot holds 13 cards or something like that.... dont know if there is something that tells the machine to eject full slots...

you can come up with your own theory of how to beat it... maybe possible not practical... at all...
 

MacauData

New Member
la_dee_daa said:
well i kinda know how the one2six works...

50 slots on a ferris wheel...a resevior which these slots are ejected into to be delt out i think lifo.... when putting the cards back in they are indivudally ejected into a random slot.....

i beleive if i remember correctly each slot holds 13 cards or something like that.... dont know if there is something that tells the machine to eject full slots...

you can come up with your own theory of how to beat it... maybe possible not practical... at all...
A little clarification here: these slots are ejected into the dealt out shoe FIFO instead of LIFO. Those cards are inserted face up to the slots FIFO initially. When these slots rotated down to the dealt out shoe, they have been inverted to be face down and appended to the cards left in the shoe. Again it is in FIFO fashion.

Just my two cents comment and in Macau, it's all CSM world with which we have to study it hard.

(Macau)Data
 

callipygian

Well-Known Member
If each slot holds 13 cards, doesn't that mean that the same 13 cards will be clumped together? Or is the input distributed among many different slots?
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
callipygian said:
If each slot holds 13 cards, doesn't that mean that the same 13 cards will be clumped together? Or is the input distributed among many different slots?
The cards are distributed. It might insert a card into slot 1, then rotate to slot 7 and insert another card, then to slot 15 and insert a card etc.

-Sonny-
 

EyeHeartHalves

Well-Known Member
Wow, this stuff seems to be extremely profitable...

and short lived! Once someone figures it out, they'll have to change it, pay more money for the next generation. ShuffleMaster corporation seems like the smartest characters in this ironic play.

Man, it must have been awesome to figure it out and legally profit from it as well. I wish I could get my hands on a new version of one of these babies. I am a licensed locksmith for a long time and I have a math degree. Also, my Ph.D. friend has worked for NASA. It's worth dreaming about right now but unless I get my hands on one, it's just a card counting key cutter's day dream.

Anyway, Big Ups to the ZG.

--Halves
 
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