Should KO be used on SD and DD games?

M

Mr_Bill

Member
I've read some conflicting opinions on the matter and it SEEMS that the simpler Level 1 systems are not as effective. Or is it just that the rate of return is not that high?

I'm an absolute beginner and I think I will start with KO and then maybe work my way up to Hi Opt II.

Thanks!

Mr. Bill
 
C

CasualPlayer

Member
Hi Bill,

I'd love to hear from the experts on this one. I think one common opinion you'll get is that most DD isn't worth counting because of the terrible penetration in most games. I won't comment on SD because I've never seriously studied it.

Anyway, I use KO in DD games and it can definitely be effective. Yes, higher order systems provide a higher rate of return. However KO can be made more effective in DD by simple things like ace side counts.

I am no expert, though. As my handle implies, I took up counting to make the game more fun and interesting for me. And particularly so that I could raise my bet with a reason rather than using random ploppy logic.

I was somewhat dilligent, however and did run many different sims using KO, my bet spread and a variety of the different games I play, mostly DD. My sims showed an edge ranging between .5 and 1% in DD games depending on different factors. This was a while back on a different computer (so please don't ask for proofs) using BlackJack Audit. Also, I don't use Kelley betting, which would most likely improve the numbers.

Anyway, KO is very easy to learn and understand (but still requires much practice, of course) and very fun to apply.

Good luck and enjoy!
CP
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
Mr_Bill said:
I've read some conflicting opinions on the matter and it SEEMS that the simpler Level 1 systems are not as effective. Or is it just that the rate of return is not that high?

I'm an absolute beginner and I think I will start with KO and then maybe work my way up to Hi Opt II.

Thanks!

Mr. Bill
Click to expand...
KO will work just fine for SD and DD games. HO2 is a very powerful system for both too. Many people find the ace sidecounting and true count conversion difficult with this count, so you might want to consider Unbalanced Zen as an alternative. It works almost as well as HO2 and isn't much harder than KO.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
Mr_Bill said:
I've read some conflicting opinions on the matter and it SEEMS that the simpler Level 1 systems are not as effective. Or is it just that the rate of return is not that high?
Click to expand...
That is true. The simpler Level 1 systems are usually slightly less accurate than the advanced Level 2 systems. However, in this case the math does not tell the whole story. Using a simpler system may be more of a benefit for several reasons:

1) A simpler system will be easier to learn. Any system you choose will require a lot of practice, but a simple system may have you ready for casino play sooner. Since Time = Money, a simpler system may have you earning money sooner.

2) A simpler system is easier to use so you will make less mistakes. A more advanced system is only more accurate if you are using it accurately. Otherwise it might even be worse!

3) A simpler system is less mentally draining than a difficult system. Using a simpler system may allow you to play for longer periods without taking a break to recoup. More time at the tables translates to more money in your pocket! :)

4) A simpler system may allow you to play faster. The math will be easier so you may spend less time thinking and more time playing. If you play 110 hands per hour instead of 100 then you have increased your hourly EV by 10%. That may be a better win rate than 100 hands of a more advanced system.

5) A simpler system will leave your brain available for using other techniques. Instead of using your entire brain for counting you might be able to count and sequence an ace or two per shoe. That will give you a huge advantage over a regular card counter no matter what system they are using.

Computer simulations do not take these factors into account when they compare systems.

Mr_Bill said:
I'm an absolute beginner and I think I will start with KO and then maybe work my way up to Hi Opt II.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a good plan. KO is a very simple yet effective system which is great for beginners. By the time you are ready to “upgrade” to another system (not that you have to, KO is fine) you will have a better idea of what system will work best for you.

As a side note, I have been using Hi-Opt II for almost 7 years now and I don’t recommend it. As AutoMonkey mentioned it can be very tricky to use and is impractical for shoe games (in my opinion). Once I switch to playing shoe games I will definitely switch to another system. In the meantime I’m just too lazy…or stubborn, I’m not sure which. :D

-Sonny-
 
golfnut101

golfnut101

Well-Known Member
counting Aces

Sonny

How do you sequence/count Aces on the side for KO ? Can you elaborate on the advantages and so on ? What would be a good resource for learning Ace side counts ?

thnx for your time
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top