Return of CIPHER!

zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
jomoats said:
Not all sayings are truthfull. Everyone needs to recognize their own limitations.
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Hey Jomoats! You are aptly qualified to review the CIPHER trend-analysis system (Archive copy). Please do so, and RESPOND THIS THREAD. Thanks! zg

---------
CIPHER SAYS -
"For better than eight years now, I’ve tracked and recorded virtually millions of hands of Blackjack at on-line casinos. The data that I’ve tracked and recorded throughout those many sessions of play ultimately translate into what I call Cipher strands. The ability to interpret those Cipher strands is what I refer to as reading trend analysis. ...

The combinations of ascending and descending stair steps, as well as switchbacks, triggers, mirages, clumps and/or runs make up what I refer to as virtual fingerprints, with each casino (not software provider) but each casino having their very own sets of identifying characteristics. Understanding the dealer’s constant and player’s yield is critical to putting together successful sessions. The Cipher program will adequately supply the user with all the tools need to formulate a successful plan for playing Blackjack on the Internet."
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
CIPHER said:
The FACT is that you, Ken Smith and Zen Grifter and anyone else you could muster were given every opportunity to put your money where your mouth was and none of you could make change for a dime. And after it became evident to everyone on this forum that you couldn't refute the factual screenshots that I posted you (collectively) disabled the ability to post that data.

That's the facts Sonny.
Click to expand...

Really? You must have a short memory. I explained why your screenshots are meaningless on 5/29/06 at 5:57 PM. Just re-read the thread and you’ll see it all. Or perhaps you forgot…

Don’t you remember on 5/29/05 at 1:55 PM when ScottH accepted your challenge to analyze your system? What about later that day at 3:13 PM when you backed down from the challenge and refused to participate (then complained about our cowardice:laugh:)? Do you not remember on 5/29/06 at 5:57 PM that I issued a challenge to you which you never accepted? I even reminded you on 5/31!

You, my fiend, have a very selective memory!

I’m sure conveniently “forgot” 5/28/06 at 2.59 PM when I explained how streak systems are unreliable…and later that day at 5:01 PM when I asked you for any sort of proof that your system works…or that I later reminded you of my pending questions on 5/31/06 at 2:57 PM but you were apparently struck dumb. What about 5/29/06 at 10:59 AM when Qfit showed the contradictions of the “flawed RNG” and trend theories? How about 5/31/06 at 3:27 PM when ScottH points out how your playing results are typical of a progression system and do not indicate an advantage? It’s all in writing for everyone to see. You can ignore it all you want but you can’t make the facts go away.

I’m worried about you now. Do you remember what year it is? Do you remember your address? I just don’t want to find you wandering around with the rain dogs one night.

-Sonny-
 
C

CIPHER

Member
zengrifter said:
Hey Jomoats! You are aptly qualified to review the CIPHER trend-analysis system (Archive copy). Please do so, and RESPOND THIS THREAD. Thanks! zg

---------
CIPHER SAYS -
"For better than eight years now, I’ve tracked and recorded virtually millions of hands of Blackjack at on-line casinos. The data that I’ve tracked and recorded throughout those many sessions of play ultimately translate into what I call Cipher strands. The ability to interpret those Cipher strands is what I refer to as reading trend analysis. ...

The combinations of ascending and descending stair steps, as well as switchbacks, triggers, mirages, clumps and/or runs make up what I refer to as virtual fingerprints, with each casino (not software provider) but each casino having their very own sets of identifying characteristics. Understanding the dealer’s constant and player’s yield is critical to putting together successful sessions. The Cipher program will adequately supply the user with all the tools need to formulate a successful plan for playing Blackjack on the Internet."
Click to expand...
It's funny to see how folks act when they realize there's no way to explain away 18 video recorded sessions. And you, Ken and Sunny consider yourselves to be some sort of authority on Blackjack.

Oh Boy, this is gonna be fun.

Cipher
 
C

CIPHER

Member
Sonny said:
Really? You must have a short memory. I explained why your screenshots are meaningless on 5/29/06 at 5:57 PM. Just re-read the thread and you’ll see it all. Or perhaps you forgot…

Don’t you remember on 5/29/05 at 1:55 PM when ScottH accepted your challenge to analyze your system? What about later that day at 3:13 PM when you backed down from the challenge and refused to participate (then complained about our cowardice:laugh:)? Do you not remember on 5/29/06 at 5:57 PM that I issued a challenge to you which you never accepted? I even reminded you on 5/31!

You, my fiend, have a very selective memory!

I’m sure conveniently “forgot” 5/28/06 at 2.59 PM when I explained how streak systems are unreliable…and later that day at 5:01 PM when I asked you for any sort of proof that your system works…or that I later reminded you of my pending questions on 5/31/06 at 2:57 PM but you were apparently struck dumb. What about 5/29/06 at 10:59 AM when Qfit showed the contradictions of the “flawed RNG” and trend theories? How about 5/31/06 at 3:27 PM when ScottH points out how your playing results are typical of a progression system and do not indicate an advantage? It’s all in writing for everyone to see. You can ignore it all you want but you can’t make the facts go away.

I’m worried about you now. Do you remember what year it is? Do you remember your address? I just don’t want to find you wandering around with the rain dogs one night.

-Sonny-
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You're going to need to do a lot better than that Sonny Boy. The terms of the agreement were very specific and not negotiable so go back and re-read the threads or at the very least stop smoking the dope.

Cipher
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
CIPHER said:
The terms of the agreement were very specific and not negotiable...
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And, not to mention, invalid! What's the matter, afraid of a real challenge? You've already backed out twice, are you going to refuse a third time? What are you trying to hide? Why don't you just run away and leave us alone for another year. You obviously can't answer any of our questions so there's no point in having you here.

-Sonny-
 
QFIT

QFIT

Well-Known Member
The best part of this thread is the great snake-oil salesman image that zg found. Other than that it is rather pointless. Well, it does show some of the techniques of scammers and that has a point. It was clear that the site was a problem as soon as it was pointed out that the author respects Patterson. Jerry has been known as a fraud for decades. Even his own partners turned against him. The man that designed the very system Jerry sells backed off of it 20 years past. And yet it is still for sale. When the guy that develops a strategy stops supporting it - isn't it time to stop selling it:)
 
C

CIPHER

Member
QFIT said:
The best part of this thread is the great snake-oil salesman image that zg found. Other than that it is rather pointless. Well, it does show some of the techniques of scammers and that has a point. It was clear that the site was a problem as soon as it was pointed out that the author respects Patterson. Jerry has been known as a fraud for decades. Even his own partners turned against him. The man that designed the very system Jerry sells backed off of it 20 years past. And yet it is still for sale. When the guy that develops a strategy stops supporting it - isn't it time to stop selling it:)
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And yet another Senior Member with a whopping 225 posts. Now if memory serves me correctly Kenny Smith has been running this scam since 1998 and surely some of you "OLD TIMERS" have been around since then. So maybe, (just maybe) 4 of you "OLD TIMERS" can get together and actually put a 1,000 posts together.

But then there's the ZEN GRIFTER who's probably got a couple thousand posts. But then the majority of those posts were probably from prison or jail, God only knows which, but yet the ZEN GRIFTER has the hutzpa to accuse someone of pedaling snake oil. I think things are coming into focus now.

Cipher
 
J

Jeff25

Well-Known Member
CIPHER said:
And yet another Senior Member with a whopping 225 posts. Now if memory serves me correctly Kenny Smith has been running this scam since 1998 and surely some of you "OLD TIMERS" have been around since then. So maybe, (just maybe) 4 of you "OLD TIMERS" can get together and actually put a 1,000 posts together.

But then there's the ZEN GRIFTER who's probably got a couple thousand posts. But then the majority of those posts were probably from prison or jail, God only knows which, but yet the ZEN GRIFTER has the hutzpa to accuse someone of pedaling snake oil. I think things are coming into focus now.

Cipher
Click to expand...
Ban this clown from posting!
 
C

CIPHER

Member
LeonShuffle said:
Why? I find it rather entertaining.

And by the way Cipher, it's spelled "chutzpah".
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No, it can be spelled both ways Leon. I would have posted that point of clarification in a screensot but the powers that be here are still a bit cowardice about my posting attachments that they have no way of explaining.

But here's the link to dictionary.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hutzpah

Cipher
 
J

jomoats

Banned
Put his virtual results on a string of colored beads.

zengrifter said:
Hey Jomoats! You are aptly qualified to review the CIPHER trend-analysis system (Archive copy). Please do so, and RESPOND THIS THREAD. Thanks! zg

---------
CIPHER SAYS -
"For better than eight years now, I’ve tracked and recorded virtually millions of hands of Blackjack at on-line casinos. The data that I’ve tracked and recorded throughout those many sessions of play ultimately translate into what I call Cipher strands. The ability to interpret those Cipher strands is what I refer to as reading trend analysis. ...

The combinations of ascending and descending stair steps, as well as switchbacks, triggers, mirages, clumps and/or runs make up what I refer to as virtual fingerprints, with each casino (not software provider) but each casino having their very own sets of identifying characteristics. Understanding the dealer’s constant and player’s yield is critical to putting together successful sessions. The Cipher program will adequately supply the user with all the tools need to formulate a successful plan for playing Blackjack on the Internet."
Click to expand...
Note all the switchbacks (wins changing direction to losses), triggers (must have one win before you can have two wins etc.),mirages (win lose win lose etc.), clumps (wwww or lose,lose,lose etc.), stairs (the direction you seem to be heading, winning or losing).

Now take all the beads off the string and shake them up in a bag and then put them back on the string. The net result will be the same, but the beads will all have different positions. You'll naturally find some similarities if you look hard enough. If he is using a count, then he probabaly is going with the direction of the count rather than the actual count. You would still have to decide how much to bet to recover you're losing hands.

I'm guessing at what he's doing. If he can find a recurring error in on-line casino software than what I say is irrelevant. He would also have to assume that every player is playing exactly the same way.

A simulator tries to duplicate real world conditions, so he's trying to find an error in a duplicate. I think he's wasting his time and but I applaud his effort.
 
B

bjbj

New Member
yet the ZEN GRIFTER has the hutzpa to accuse someone of pedaling snake oil.
Click to expand...
And unless you are riding a bike, it is 'peddling' snake oil.

I have a sample of your betting strategy on hand and I am wondering why your predictions are often wrong. Sure, you keep betting like crazy and eventually grab a few winners at ridiculous bets but why does your predictor get it wrong. Eg, on hand 19 of the sample I have you bet $1 and won. Next hand you put $75 on the table and lost the double down. Next hand you put $500 on the table and lost the double down. After three hands your prediction was wrong twice and you are down $1149. But it got worse. Your prediction for the next hand was totally wrong. It was obviously telling you that you would lose so you only put $1 on the table. But you won. That's a fairly awful ability to predict, wouldn't you agree? Next hand, hand 23, you reckon you are going to win so you go from $1 to $500. But you lose. After five hands you have won the $1 bet and lost all the higher bets to be -$1648. Hand 24 you go back to $1 and finally your prediction is possibly right and you lose the $1 bet. On hand 25, you reckon you'll win again so you put $500 on the table but you lose. Another wrong prediction. How? Why? From seven hands you have predicted the five extremely high bets incorrectly and won the two lousy $1 bets to be $2149 in the negative. What kind of successful prediction is that? Surely your system should be able to predict better than that. Or is it just fluke and guesswork?
 
C

CIPHER

Member
HiBJBJ:

Is there any sort of identification markings on the sample you're referring to. The database I've developed consists of better than eight years of data and if it's one of my sessions of play there will be identity markers on the html or merged file of the session of play.

Cipher
 
C

CIPHER

Member
jomoats said:
Note all the switchbacks (wins changing direction to losses), triggers (must have one win before you can have two wins etc.),mirages (win lose win lose etc.), clumps (wwww or lose,lose,lose etc.), stairs (the direction you seem to be heading, winning or losing).

Now take all the beads off the string and shake them up in a bag and then put them back on the string. The net result will be the same, but the beads will all have different positions. You'll naturally find some similarities if you look hard enough. If he is using a count, then he probabaly is going with the direction of the count rather than the actual count. You would still have to decide how much to bet to recover you're losing hands.

I'm guessing at what he's doing. If he can find a recurring error in on-line casino software than what I say is irrelevant. He would also have to assume that every player is playing exactly the same way.

A simulator tries to duplicate real world conditions, so he's trying to find an error in a duplicate. I think he's wasting his time and but I applaud his effort.
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Hi JOMOATS:

Not bad for a first glance though you're way off on the duplicator thing. You'd be much better off viewing the videos of the sessions with the audio rather than looking at static screenshots.

But as I say not bad at all for a first glance.

Cipher
 
M

mdlbj

Well-Known Member
Maybe this will help you in your quest Mr. Cipher.

Many symmetric key algorithms use a construct called a substitution box, also known as an “S-box”. The purpose of the S-box is to protect the algorithm from linear and differential cryptanalysis by hiding how the cipher text is obtained from the clear text. It also adds to the diffusion property of the algorithm. Diffusion is when you alter a bit in the input, and it changes a number of output bits.

A block cipher algorithm can be a:

* Iterative Block Cipher
* Electronic Code Book Cipher
* Cipher Block Chaining
* Cipher Feedback
* Output Feedback

So if maybe you have a PHD in statistics, I might think about buying your software.

Ask someone at this company to help you out. http://cococorp.com Im sure they will be more than willing...For a slight fee.
 
C

CIPHER

Member
mdlbj said:
Maybe this will help you in your quest Mr. Cipher.

Many symmetric key algorithms use a construct called a substitution box, also known as an “S-box”. The purpose of the S-box is to protect the algorithm from linear and differential cryptanalysis by hiding how the cipher text is obtained from the clear text. It also adds to the diffusion property of the algorithm. Diffusion is when you alter a bit in the input, and it changes a number of output bits.

A block cipher algorithm can be a:

* Iterative Block Cipher
* Electronic Code Book Cipher
* Cipher Block Chaining
* Cipher Feedback
* Output Feedback

So if maybe you have a PHD in statistics, I might think about buying your software.

Ask someone at this company to help you out. http://cococorp.com Im sure they will be more than willing...For a slight fee.
Click to expand...
Thanks just the same, but I do quite well enough on my own. Though I will admit that those individuals who have PHD's have done well with the Cipher program, but only because I'm confident the requisite patience, planning and discipline required in attaining a PHD is well suited to the principles of the Cipher program.

Cipher
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
bjbj said:
I have a sample of your betting strategy on hand and I am wondering why your predictions are often wrong...Surely your system should be able to predict better than that. Or is it just fluke and guesswork?
Click to expand...
I asked the same questions seven months ago and still haven’t gotten any answers. Since Cipher doesn’t like answering questions about his system I’ll take the reins on this one.

One of the most important concerns about a system is its correlation coefficient. In layman’s terms, this is the measurement of how accurately it “matches up to” real world events. For example, a player may decide to leave the table every time he gets hungry and only play when he is sated. Both becoming hungry and winning are real events that may occasionally coincide, but they do not always move in unison – they are not correlated. It would therefore not benefit the player to use this strategy.

By contrast, card counting is used to estimate the player’s advantage/disadvantage based on the cards yet to be played. The card values (usually +1 or –1) are related directly to the effects of removal of each card so the two events will move in unison and closely in proportion. Most card counting systems have a Betting Correlation of .95-.99, which means that they are 95-99% accurate.

As you’ve noticed, Cipher’s system is not nearly as accurate. In fact, it is no more accurate than pure guessing (or leaving when you are hungry). Of course, he would never admit that so he has coined terms like “switchbacks”, “triggers”, “ascending/descending stair steps”, “mirages”, and “clumps” to cover his tracks. Whenever his prediction is wrong he blames it on something else. Let’s face it, any system with that many different excuses for mistakes is not a reliable one. After all, if it were truly accurate then there would be no such thing as “switchbacks” or “mirages” because the system would account for them.

I’ve brought up these issues before and Cipher did not dispute them so I assume that he does not have an explanation. I expect that he will simply continue to complain about the number of posts people on this site are making (I’m only up to 734 so I must not be trustworthy:laugh:). He must be bored since there hasn’t been any activity on his message boards for the past 75 days. :sleep:

-Sonny-
 
S

ScottH

Well-Known Member
Sonny said:
I’ve brought up these issues before and Cipher did not dispute them so I assume that he does not have an explanation. I expect that he will simply continue to complain about the number of posts people on this site are making (I’m only up to 734 so I must not be trustworthy:laugh:). He must be bored since there hasn’t been any activity on his message boards for the past 75 days. :sleep:

-Sonny-
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It's completely ridiculous to attack someone's knowledge of blackjack strictly base on how many posts they have. The number of posts made on a forum is not directly related to blackjack knowledge, but i wish that were true, because I would be in the top 2! :cool:
 
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