Major Law Change

Starting July 1st Nevada Gaming will no longer be the ruling authority over cash transaction procedure. The process will now be governed by the IRS and major changes include the following:

1. No more "Money Plays"
Reason for this is because when a player makes a wager, it is now property of the casino until the end of the hand. So a $5000 money plays that wins is actually a $10,000 transaction according to the law. $5000 win, plus $5000 cashout when you take your money back. All cash must now be changed for chips before wagering. This is mainly a casino policy change to make it easier to keep track of total transaction amount and is expected to be the standard in all Las Vegas casinos.

2. No more Regulation 6A
Nevada Gaming will have nothing to do with tracking cash transactions anymore.

3. Social Security Number required along with copy of ID for transactions exceeding $10,000
Just an ID is no longer enough, you must provide SSN

4. Automatic filing of Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) to FINCEN, http://www.fincen.gov/ , upon refusing to surrender ID.
If asked for an ID and you refuse, your picture along with any information known about you will be included in a SAR. When a SAR is filed, it is common to send the information to other casinos around town so it is best to avoid this situation.

This information was given to me by management at my current casino and is everything I know so far. I will let you all know about any other changes as I find out.

I know this is bad news for some, but I hope this helps you avoid any future problems.

EC

4. Automatic filing of Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) to FINCEN, http://www.fincen.gov/ , upon refusing to surrender ID.
If asked for an ID and you refuse, your picture along with any information known about you will be included in a SAR. When a SAR is filed, it is common to send the information to other casinos around town so it is best to avoid this situation.

This information was given to me by management at my current casino and is everything I know so far. I will let you all know about any other changes as I find out.

I know this is bad news for some, but I hope this helps you avoid any future problems.

EC[/QUOTE]


Are you certain of this? The SAR is an official government form that triggers an investigation.I would think it is illegal to share any information with non-goveernment entities.

Ugh. Thanks for posting this info. I'll see what else I can dig up.

Shadrock,
I seem to remember reading that it was fairly common practice already, although i don't play in the states so i've not investigated this in any depth. Alongside this while the SAR may be a government document the casino is well within its rights to share player information about any player who they deem worthy of watching, so sending over pictures ect ect is far from a grey legal area. It would be illegal to share the SAR form with other casinos but not the information on it.

RJT.

RJT said:

Shadrock,
I seem to remember reading that it was fairly common practice already, although i don't play in the states so i've not investigated this in any depth. Alongside this while the SAR may be a government document the casino is well within its rights to share player information about any player who they deem worthy of watching, so sending over pictures ect ect is far from a grey legal area. It would be illegal to share the SAR form with other casinos but not the information on it.

RJT.

Click to expand...

You can be almost sure the info will be shared with other casinos owned by the same parent company. If your activity really stands out, it will be sent all over the place. Where I used to work, we'd get info sent all the way from Reno sometimes, but it was usually about serious crimes like identity theft or card markers.

Update

SSN and ID will be processed electronically on the spot for validation. The law requires transactions of over $10,000 to obtain ID, BUT casino policies can differ and any refusal of ID, whether cashing out $2000 or $10000, will result in a SAR. My casino is requiring IDs and SSNs for $4000 and over buy in or cash out and already we're filing SARs and the law hasnt even taken effect yet. Were just starting early so we get used to it.

Clarification on #4

Is a SAR to be filed when ID is refused when we are talking about a cash out or any refusal.
Go to cash your $4,000 in chips and they want ID & SSN, you refuse, I understand they generate a report.

Casino security is going to back you off of blackjack, or 86 you and ask for your ID and SSN, you refuse, does this now also generate a SAR? Better yet, you are losing, they back you off and you foolishly go to the cage to cash out your remaining $47 in chips, they ask for ID and SSN, and you refuse, what now?

ihate17

Filing an SAR under those circumstances is a complete abuse of the law.



Anyone wanting to know more about SARS can simply google it.

RJT said:

Shadrock,
I seem to remember reading that it was fairly common practice already, although i don't play in the states so i've not investigated this in any depth. Alongside this while the SAR may be a government document the casino is well within its rights to share player information about any player who they deem worthy of watching, so sending over pictures ect ect is far from a grey legal area. It would be illegal to share the SAR form with other casinos but not the information on it.

RJT.

Click to expand...

I believe informing anyone but the Federal government about the filing of an SAR is illegal.
SARs are not to be treated lightly.They are intended to catch money launderers,drug dealers,smugglers and terrorists.
Do you think a bank will look fondly on your mortage application if it sees you are the subject of federal money laundering investigations on a regular basis?

A bank won't know that a SAR has been filed by a another institution.

Even within the same bank, a lending officer won't know that a SAR has been filed, as that information is supposed to be highly compartmentalized.

I don't think it's the SARs that advantage players have to worry about from casinos, it's other forms of douchiness.

EasyRhino said:

A bank won't know that a SAR has been filed by a another institution.

Even within the same bank, a lending officer won't know that a SAR has been filed, as that information is supposed to be highly compartmentalized.

I don't think it's the SARs that advantage players have to worry about from casinos, it's other forms of douchiness.

Click to expand...

IF the law was being followed,but it seems the casinos are freely abusing it. Why not banks?

SARS Outbreak

EasyRhino said:

I don't think it's the SARs that advantage players have to worry about from casinos, it's other forms of douchiness.

Click to expand...

There was a big SARS problem asians brought to Toronto in 2003...Luckily Sir Jagger and the Rolling Stones cured it... I know it's only rock and roll... BUT I LIKE IT!

(Dead link: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/sarsbenefit/)

:joker:

intent of the law vs what casinos might do

I think that everyone will agree that the filing of a SAR against an AP who does nothing to warrant the filing of an SAR except refusing to give ID to casino security is not what the federal government had intended.
Though the majority of my backoffs have been polite and respectible, there have been times where I could forsee a vindictive casino employee doing something extra, like having a SAR report filed out on me.
Sure, it would be wrong for them to do this but it would be well within their ability and you would not know they did it.

The times where I knew I was in CTR territory or a casino employee informed me that he needed ID and SSN because I had crossed that $10,000 line, I have always complied. I learned long ago that keeping the government out of your life can make your life much less complicated and much more enjoyable..

ihate17

If you refuse your ID at the cage when buying in or cashing out, not security... We'd have thousands of SARs filed weekly if every person who refused ID to security was to be reported.

EdgeCapper said:

Reason for this is because when a player makes a wager, it is now property of the casino until the end of the hand. So a $5000 money plays that wins is actually a $10,000 transaction according to the law. $5000 win, plus $5000 cashout when you take your money back.
EC

Click to expand...

I hope IRS doesn't try to tax players on the full $10,000. The casinos should give players a receipt for chips originally obtained to serve as proof of the cashout portion vis a vis the amount actually won. If not, the player (taxpayer) is in a precarious position tax-wise.

EdgeCapper said:

4. Automatic filing of Suspicious Activity Report (SAR) to FINCEN, http://www.fincen.gov/ , upon refusing to surrender ID.
If asked for an ID and you refuse, your picture along with any information known about you will be included in a SAR.

Click to expand...

This would presumably be ONLY related to financial activities, though the casinos will for sure abuse it.

In the past, agencies lie Griffin might have labled legal APs "cheats" and now casinos can file SARs and label legal APs "money-launderers". zg

Perhaps it does not matter

zengrifter said:

This would presumably be ONLY related to financial activities, though the casinos will for sure abuse it.

In the past, agencies lie Griffin might have labled legal APs "cheats" and now casinos can file SARs and label legal APs "money-launderers". zg

Click to expand...

Zengrifter:
The more I think about it the more I know that if the casinos wanted to file SAR reports for spite against APs, they could very well been doing it all along and we might never know.
The casino and Griffin can label you a cheat and perhaps you can sue them, but once in the book it will follow you from casino to casino.
The casino can attempt to prod the governemt into labeling you as a money launderer but only the governemt can actually do this.

Since IRS likes to audit me every 3 years or so and they do nothing but waste their's, mine, and my accountants time, the worst that I could guess might happen to me is that they will audit me every other year. But that is another thread, no it is a book.

ihate17

I'd say about 33% of the time that I cash out over 10,000 has resulted in a CTR. One time it was for 12k, yet I've had times when I've cashed out over 20k and no CTR or anything has been filled out.

zengrifter said:

This would presumably be ONLY related to financial activities, though the casinos will for sure abuse it.

In the past, agencies lie Griffin might have labled legal APs "cheats" and now casinos can file SARs and label legal APs "money-launderers". zg

Click to expand...

Oh I'm sure the casinos would love to do that. Already they treat players cards like an ID that you need to play in a casino. I think they are more interested in the marketing aspects of getting everyone's ID but tracking and punishing AP's would be an additional benefit.

What if you don't have a social security number? i guess the irs don't care then.