Trip bankroll, eventually replentishable

Ferrot's post got me thinking.

In theory, as long as one has a great enough trip bankroll to not go broke while there is still a positive count, can you literally be way overbetting, as long as you do not return to the casino until you have built up a solid trip br once again?

basically I'm saying this:
if I have 120 units going into the casino and this is my ENTIRE br.

say I have a bad session and lose 100 of those units. If for the next session I do not return until I have 120 total units again, does this effectively simulate as if I had that deep of a br the entire time?

Basically I'm speaking of a big overbetting situation where my unit is five times higher than it should be. Instead of playing at what it would be because the EV per hour on that br is not worth playing, if I play on a much higher unit, pretending my BR is 5 times what it is, as long as I replace the BR before returning it is the same as if I had that BR originally.

Correct me if my logic is wrong.

Also what is a sufficient trip br?
would 60 units be enough playing a 6deck game and spreading 1-10?

p8ntballsk8r said:

Ferrot's post got me thinking.

In theory, as long as one has a great enough trip bankroll to not go broke while there is still a positive count, can you literally be way overbetting, as long as you do not return to the casino until you have built up a solid trip br once again?

basically I'm saying this:
if I have 120 units going into the casino and this is my ENTIRE br.

say I have a bad session and lose 100 of those units. If for the next session I do not return until I have 120 total units again, does this effectively simulate as if I had that deep of a br the entire time?

Basically I'm speaking of a big overbetting situation where my unit is five times higher than it should be. Instead of playing at what it would be because the EV per hour on that br is not worth playing, if I play on a much higher unit, pretending my BR is 5 times what it is, as long as I replace the BR before returning it is the same as if I had that BR originally.

Correct me if my logic is wrong.

Also what is a sufficient trip br?
would 60 units be enough playing a 6deck game and spreading 1-10?

Click to expand...

i'd want to have at least 150 units at that spread, 200 units would be better. that being said i often used a trip bank of 60 units when i was playing six deckers and spreading 1-8...... but i think i was pretty much pushing my luck. but then there are other considerations as well such as if you are wonging or playing all.
sorry but the other points your asking about just confuse me. there is some merit to being able to replenish a bankroll but to me you'd want to have a good understanding of the rate at which you can confidently replenish it so as to figure out how to not overbet with that as a consideration.

As long as you're working with a replenishable bankroll you can afford to bet at a somewhat higher level. There is a special RoR formula in Wong's GC archives that accounts for regular contributions to your bankroll from other sources. There is also some info here:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?p=36167

-Sonny-

k here's another question then.

First off I use knockout, modified to my liking so that I start at 0.
16 is the key, and 24 is the pivot.

Say wonging in at a count of 20. approx +2 true count i think.

I have 120 units in a BR, possibly only 60 in the trip BR.

what would be a decently safe amount to bet at in this situation?

If I was in a play all situation, or properly bankrolled in a count of 20 I would be betting 5 Units in this situation.

Since i'm only Wonging in on this count or better, is it plausible for me to bet 5 units here even though this is only 1/12 of my trip br? and 1/20th of my current bankroll?

p8ntballsk8r said:

.........
I have 120 units in a BR, possibly only 60 in the trip BR.

what would be a decently safe amount to bet at in this situation?
..............?

Click to expand...

maybe i mis-understand but if you mean 120 units is your entire bankroll, well then it's no where near enough of a bankroll to even worry about it.
but don't get me wrong i started with a 60 unit bankroll for my entire bankroll i'm talkin here and was lucky enough to build it to an almost reasonable bankroll of 1440 units. talkin six deck games and some eight deckers. that of course had to be one heck of a lot of luck. lol oh yeah and by the way i did use the replenish option about two or three times out of all of those sessions.
but i think i must be mis-understanding what your entire bankroll is.
and probably wonging in at a ko count that is equivalent to a hi/lo true count of +2 would be a pretty good tactic. still a gamble though mind you if your entire bankroll is really 120 units. so i don't know if you think you want to gamble 5 units at a +2 true count you could get lucky. just it wouldn't be proper advantage play where your properly banked and playing according to a safe game plan according to some simulation of the game in question at some risk of ruin that is acceptable to you.

Thank you for putting into words what i could not, "playing as if i had a larger bankroll but did not actually ahve it untill the future"

Im still confused as to how ror works, i just figured my ror on the number of hands i would play that night and the amout of money i had, aparently thats not how its done, but it worked for me, and im still confident it was a safe adventure.

I also viewed the hole thing as an adventure where even if i lost my 600 doolar initial investment i woudl have had fun and at least the honor of saying i tried and didnt pussy out.

I also played on the premis that i never lost more than 20 max bets ina single shoe, and that if i always played to the end of a shoe i would never lose any advantage. that was my rule of thumb for how much money to bring wiht me that day.

60 units would not be near enough i have lost in one shoe a few times...
1500 playing 10 dollar units 1-10
3500 playing 25 dollar units 1-10
i also once lost 7000 total on three consecutive shoes playing 25 1-10

hope thats inspiring

here are a few of the links from SW's page that Sonny was referring to (they're free now):

replenishable bank calculations:
http://bj21.com/bj_reference/pages/renewablebankrollformula.shtml

also, here is a simple method for calculating a trip/session bakroll:
http://bj21.com/bj_reference/pages/10525.html
if you only have enough of a bank to make one trip and are praying to not get wiped out (and replenish if you do indeed get wiped out), it should at least be as large as what you would calculate in the link above (or at least as large as that gotten from Norm's trip BR calculator on his QFIT site if you to decide to go that way).

personally if you have the time and mathematical ability to do so, i recommend you at least try and pull out a pencil and paper and try and do the calcs yourself if only to further your understanding of how much cushion you need to build into even a trip BR even though you are "playing with an advantage". it will also give you a general idea of what all the fancy software out there do under their hoods when calculating BR size, RoR, etc.

rukus

p8ntballsk8r said:

Say wonging in at a count of 20. approx +2 true count i think.

I have 120 units in a BR, possibly only 60 in the trip BR.

what would be a decently safe amount to bet at in this situation?

If I was in a play all situation, or properly bankrolled in a count of 20 I would be betting 5 Units in this situation.

Since i'm only Wonging in on this count or better, is it plausible for me to bet 5 units here even though this is only 1/12 of my trip br? and 1/20th of my current bankroll?

Click to expand...

Here's the thing. I think lol. Broadly speaking.

One's bankroll always begins in dollars, not units. It's not in units until you pick a game and a spread at various counts just to keep it extremely simple like assuming no indices etc for the moment.

I always choose to express things in min-bet units given whatever I have come up with as to how to bet and when. So do a lot of other people I think just so that's it's generally assumed if one says"my bankroll is 120 units" it's assumed it refers to min units. As opposed to avg units or max units for example.

What's important is that, in the exact same game, and let's just assume standard AC crap dealt to 75%, one might need 1000 units or even 2000 units spreading 1-10 or more in a play-all situation with various usual bet ramps giving rise to a unigue ROR for that situaition.

But, like you suggest, say you now decide to back-count the exact same game, enetring at +2, always leaving at counts less than that, and maybe only use a modest 1-2 spread. Well, now, it's very possible that you only need a 100 min-bet unit roll with the exact same total $ bankroll and ROR and likely higher hourly EV.

In others words a $1500 roll is probably insanity spreading large in a multi-deck playall game but could actually possibly work in a back-counting game.