Ok- update time with a few observances and self critiques.
As a bit of background, I have played for years and done ok with bs. My betting strategy was simply to bet low until I got hot and/or had a big stack compared to what I started with, then I would go from $5 or $10 bets to as much as $100 or a bit more. Never once did I get any heat for being an AP (which I wasn't), although my spreads might have sometimes looked like one.
Over the years my bs was probably about 95% correct, with the few mistakes being on things like 12 vs 2, or doubling s16 vs 3, that are pretty marginal anyway. Since learning that I wasn't 100% correct (one dealer told me "you play by the book, except for the 12 vs 2, why don't you hit that like you are supposed to?") I have studied a bit more and have probably upped the %age to about 98. I still mess up occasionally on splitting 4s, and where the book goes to just hitting, vs doubling 9s against a 7 (all the rest have the basic rule of doubling on everything the same or worse, except that one, which throws me off).
Anyway, I posted back in Jan. about my first CC trip, which was to LV. I did pretty well and came back up several hundred. That was the trip where I played at a small place off the strip and was one of only 2 people in the place during the morning.
I basically flat bet for a while and then took a bs hit that gave me 21, only to have the dealer say "you keep that up and you'll draw some attention". Of course I thought to myself, "what does that have to do with counting?. This guy obviously doesn't know what he is talking about". A while later I gradually ramped up my bet a few units as the count got better. I can't remember if I hit a bj or not, but at some point he said "the count is getting good huh". I replied with "what?...the count?...what's that?". He said "good answer" and left me alone. I purposely bet fairly big at the beginning of the next shoe and got on a roll, so I let it run even though the count was slightly neg. As the count started getting better I said I needed to catch my plane and wonged out (I figured that would really confuse them if they were watching me).
Fast forward to this week where I took another trip. I had meant to study before leaving but never got a chance to practice anything at all, which meant I was going in cold after only 1 cc'ing attempt 8 months ago.
They had a sd game with 6-5 bj. so I just kept walking. The only other choice was 8d, h s16, any dd, 3 splits, and about 1.25 d pen.
I started at a $5 table and lost about half my trip BR in 2 hrs when I ran into a horrible string of luck. One dealer even said "I've been dealing a long time and I've never seen anything like this". Finally the count turned and I upped my bet to about $50 over a couple of hands and got back to even, at which point I quit for the night.
My initial observations were that I had a bit of trouble keeping track of the count while sitting at 1st base. 3rd base also presented a problem in that the dealer's hands often blocked the cards at 1st base as he gave a card and immediately picked up the busted hand. I also found that at times I did better by counting pairs, while at other times I did better doing each card. Sometimes while doing pairs I waited until after the hand had been dealt but that meant I couldn't sit at first base or I didn't have enough time to count the pairs before he immediately asked me to play my hand. The other problem was that I found it easier to count pairs when there were even numbers of players. I would have a bit of trouble trying to do pairs when there were 3 or 5 players.
The next day I again played at the $5 table. The count turned good (I was playing Kiss 3) and I went up again to about $50 and the dealer and/or other players got all the face cards while I got the few 4s and 5s that were in the deck. After losing a few hundred I decided to leave. As I was walking out I realized I had ph'd a couple of greenies.
At this point I noticed a $25 table with nobody at it and decided to play a few hands and see if I could do any better. I won more hands than I lost, and pretty soon the count got to about +25. By this time a guy had joined in that recognized me from back home and we started some chit chat. I found it hard to talk and count but was able to do most of my talking during breaks in the action and not lose count. Then another guy recognized me from back home, and realized the other guy was from back home as well, and sat down and watched for a long time. Once the count got up to 25, since I was up a few hundred, I increased my bet to $75. I won and went to $100, then $200, then $300. I didn't win every hand, and if I lost a hand I stayed with the same bet, but overall I was winning as the count steadily rose to something like +32. Finally, I put out $400 (by far my biggest bet ever) and lost. Anyway, it was dinner time so I played a few hands on the new shoe and left up a thousand bills. Not bad on a $50 start eh....
My wife took the 1k and said I wouldn't be getting it back. Since I still had my original $800 trip br I figured that was good, since it meant I would at least go home a winner.
The next day I went by the only $25 table (that was the high rollers table at this place. Every other table was $10). The guys from the previous night were playing again with the watcher just sitting there again. So, I sat down and chatted with everyone and just watched as well. As the count started turning, the players were doing a bit better so I said "man, you guys seem to be on a roll, let me in on this action". I started at something like $50 and built to about $100, maybe even $200. I played so many hours over 5 days it is hard to remember every detail. I do know that I walked away almost exactly 1 grand ahead again.
My observations from that night are again, that it is really hard to talk and count, and that I really have trouble when the count gets down near zero. To counteract that I add 10 so that I don't have to do neg #s. The problem was that later on as things got safely positive again I couldn't remember if I had already subtracted the 10 back out or not. When in doubt I would subtract the 10 so that I was erring on the side of caution. I'd rather miss a chance than bet big when I shouldn't have. I also had trouble remembering the count during breaks for new players buying in etc. I would put the count in my head and then someone would start chatting. Often they were throwing around #s from various hands that had just happened, and by the time the dealer was ready to go I would have forgotten what the count was.
Somehow over the next couple of days I again won $1000 each session. Once in the afternoon, and the next $1000 in the evening. I think it was that evening session (where I was already up 3k or more for the trip that I had another interesting scenario.
I was basically just holding my own at the $25 table playing with the same guys and the same watcher sitting there. Finally, the numbers got to about +25 and I went to 50 or 75. I won and went to 100. Then 150 and I lost. Then 150 again and won. Then 200 and lost, then 200 and won. At that point the count was something like +30 and it was about 3/4s of the way through the 8 shoes. So, I kept out the 200 and I drew a pair of 3s vs a 2. I split and was thinking omg, that's $400 !. Then he gave me an 8. I cringed but doubled like I should have. Then another 3 on the 2nd spot and another $200 split. Then an 8 and another $200 double. I now had a thousand bucks on one hand and was dying, seeing as how my biggest ever bet by far had been $400 the night before. The 11 double took a 4. Uggg. The 10 double got a 7, then the final 3 got a picture for a 13. I remembered that 12 vs a 2 should take a hit but couldn't remember if it was a 3 vs a 2 that also did, or just a 12 vs a 3 in addition to the 2 that I was sure of. But, figuring that with a count that high the indices would probably show marginal moves like a 12 v 2 or 13 vs 2 were skewed toward holding, I stayed (it turns out obviously that that was the proper move anyway).
I can't tell you how nervous I was with 13, 15, and 17 against a 2 for $1000!
I don't even remember what they pulled, but I do know the hole card wasn't a picture and I got even more nervous. Somehow they busted and everyone around me screamed while one guy shouted "you got balls buddy". I think I quit pretty soon after that but I really don't remember. I kept cashing in each night but later wondered if I shouldn't have given my wife some of the chips to cash. Even though 1k isn't much money at some casinos, there weren't a lot of people playing at this venue with a lot of money over the 5 days (there were probably about 5 of us, with the rest betting more than me, including one guy that was doing $500 on 2 spots much of the time). Anyway, the final day I sat with my pretty cousin at the $5 again and tried to teach her the basics. I didn't vary my bets much beyond a $5 to $25 spread, but by playing 2 hands and upping things a bit at the right times I did very well. In fact, I still managed to get another 1000 ahead.
Finally, on the last night I went back and in 2 different sessions lost $600 (at the 25 table), and $200 (at the $5), despite making big bets at really good counts. This time things went the dealers way instead of mine. That gave me a net of 4k on a trip bankroll of 800 or so.
I know a lot of it was luck (or variance), but I did have a ton of bad luck as well as a lot of good. The difference was that during the bad runs I was betting $5 much of the time and during the good luck I was doing a lot more !. Obviously, just like the last night, I could have had bad luck with big bets out instead of good luck, and I don't expect to make money all the time, but I am encouraged to put it mildly !
I know I need to get the last couple of bs boxes that I don't have down 100% by studying next time before I go. I also need to practice counting ahead of time. I did very well, but still feel like that was a weak point, especially having to talk at the same time.
The biggest thing though was probably the ability to wong in and out without drawing heat, and being able to do as big a spread as I wanted without getting heat.
I would love to hear comments.
As a bit of background, I have played for years and done ok with bs. My betting strategy was simply to bet low until I got hot and/or had a big stack compared to what I started with, then I would go from $5 or $10 bets to as much as $100 or a bit more. Never once did I get any heat for being an AP (which I wasn't), although my spreads might have sometimes looked like one.
Over the years my bs was probably about 95% correct, with the few mistakes being on things like 12 vs 2, or doubling s16 vs 3, that are pretty marginal anyway. Since learning that I wasn't 100% correct (one dealer told me "you play by the book, except for the 12 vs 2, why don't you hit that like you are supposed to?") I have studied a bit more and have probably upped the %age to about 98. I still mess up occasionally on splitting 4s, and where the book goes to just hitting, vs doubling 9s against a 7 (all the rest have the basic rule of doubling on everything the same or worse, except that one, which throws me off).
Anyway, I posted back in Jan. about my first CC trip, which was to LV. I did pretty well and came back up several hundred. That was the trip where I played at a small place off the strip and was one of only 2 people in the place during the morning.
I basically flat bet for a while and then took a bs hit that gave me 21, only to have the dealer say "you keep that up and you'll draw some attention". Of course I thought to myself, "what does that have to do with counting?. This guy obviously doesn't know what he is talking about". A while later I gradually ramped up my bet a few units as the count got better. I can't remember if I hit a bj or not, but at some point he said "the count is getting good huh". I replied with "what?...the count?...what's that?". He said "good answer" and left me alone. I purposely bet fairly big at the beginning of the next shoe and got on a roll, so I let it run even though the count was slightly neg. As the count started getting better I said I needed to catch my plane and wonged out (I figured that would really confuse them if they were watching me).
Fast forward to this week where I took another trip. I had meant to study before leaving but never got a chance to practice anything at all, which meant I was going in cold after only 1 cc'ing attempt 8 months ago.
They had a sd game with 6-5 bj. so I just kept walking. The only other choice was 8d, h s16, any dd, 3 splits, and about 1.25 d pen.
I started at a $5 table and lost about half my trip BR in 2 hrs when I ran into a horrible string of luck. One dealer even said "I've been dealing a long time and I've never seen anything like this". Finally the count turned and I upped my bet to about $50 over a couple of hands and got back to even, at which point I quit for the night.
My initial observations were that I had a bit of trouble keeping track of the count while sitting at 1st base. 3rd base also presented a problem in that the dealer's hands often blocked the cards at 1st base as he gave a card and immediately picked up the busted hand. I also found that at times I did better by counting pairs, while at other times I did better doing each card. Sometimes while doing pairs I waited until after the hand had been dealt but that meant I couldn't sit at first base or I didn't have enough time to count the pairs before he immediately asked me to play my hand. The other problem was that I found it easier to count pairs when there were even numbers of players. I would have a bit of trouble trying to do pairs when there were 3 or 5 players.
The next day I again played at the $5 table. The count turned good (I was playing Kiss 3) and I went up again to about $50 and the dealer and/or other players got all the face cards while I got the few 4s and 5s that were in the deck. After losing a few hundred I decided to leave. As I was walking out I realized I had ph'd a couple of greenies.
At this point I noticed a $25 table with nobody at it and decided to play a few hands and see if I could do any better. I won more hands than I lost, and pretty soon the count got to about +25. By this time a guy had joined in that recognized me from back home and we started some chit chat. I found it hard to talk and count but was able to do most of my talking during breaks in the action and not lose count. Then another guy recognized me from back home, and realized the other guy was from back home as well, and sat down and watched for a long time. Once the count got up to 25, since I was up a few hundred, I increased my bet to $75. I won and went to $100, then $200, then $300. I didn't win every hand, and if I lost a hand I stayed with the same bet, but overall I was winning as the count steadily rose to something like +32. Finally, I put out $400 (by far my biggest bet ever) and lost. Anyway, it was dinner time so I played a few hands on the new shoe and left up a thousand bills. Not bad on a $50 start eh....
My wife took the 1k and said I wouldn't be getting it back. Since I still had my original $800 trip br I figured that was good, since it meant I would at least go home a winner.
The next day I went by the only $25 table (that was the high rollers table at this place. Every other table was $10). The guys from the previous night were playing again with the watcher just sitting there again. So, I sat down and chatted with everyone and just watched as well. As the count started turning, the players were doing a bit better so I said "man, you guys seem to be on a roll, let me in on this action". I started at something like $50 and built to about $100, maybe even $200. I played so many hours over 5 days it is hard to remember every detail. I do know that I walked away almost exactly 1 grand ahead again.
My observations from that night are again, that it is really hard to talk and count, and that I really have trouble when the count gets down near zero. To counteract that I add 10 so that I don't have to do neg #s. The problem was that later on as things got safely positive again I couldn't remember if I had already subtracted the 10 back out or not. When in doubt I would subtract the 10 so that I was erring on the side of caution. I'd rather miss a chance than bet big when I shouldn't have. I also had trouble remembering the count during breaks for new players buying in etc. I would put the count in my head and then someone would start chatting. Often they were throwing around #s from various hands that had just happened, and by the time the dealer was ready to go I would have forgotten what the count was.
Somehow over the next couple of days I again won $1000 each session. Once in the afternoon, and the next $1000 in the evening. I think it was that evening session (where I was already up 3k or more for the trip that I had another interesting scenario.
I was basically just holding my own at the $25 table playing with the same guys and the same watcher sitting there. Finally, the numbers got to about +25 and I went to 50 or 75. I won and went to 100. Then 150 and I lost. Then 150 again and won. Then 200 and lost, then 200 and won. At that point the count was something like +30 and it was about 3/4s of the way through the 8 shoes. So, I kept out the 200 and I drew a pair of 3s vs a 2. I split and was thinking omg, that's $400 !. Then he gave me an 8. I cringed but doubled like I should have. Then another 3 on the 2nd spot and another $200 split. Then an 8 and another $200 double. I now had a thousand bucks on one hand and was dying, seeing as how my biggest ever bet by far had been $400 the night before. The 11 double took a 4. Uggg. The 10 double got a 7, then the final 3 got a picture for a 13. I remembered that 12 vs a 2 should take a hit but couldn't remember if it was a 3 vs a 2 that also did, or just a 12 vs a 3 in addition to the 2 that I was sure of. But, figuring that with a count that high the indices would probably show marginal moves like a 12 v 2 or 13 vs 2 were skewed toward holding, I stayed (it turns out obviously that that was the proper move anyway).
I can't tell you how nervous I was with 13, 15, and 17 against a 2 for $1000!
I don't even remember what they pulled, but I do know the hole card wasn't a picture and I got even more nervous. Somehow they busted and everyone around me screamed while one guy shouted "you got balls buddy". I think I quit pretty soon after that but I really don't remember. I kept cashing in each night but later wondered if I shouldn't have given my wife some of the chips to cash. Even though 1k isn't much money at some casinos, there weren't a lot of people playing at this venue with a lot of money over the 5 days (there were probably about 5 of us, with the rest betting more than me, including one guy that was doing $500 on 2 spots much of the time). Anyway, the final day I sat with my pretty cousin at the $5 again and tried to teach her the basics. I didn't vary my bets much beyond a $5 to $25 spread, but by playing 2 hands and upping things a bit at the right times I did very well. In fact, I still managed to get another 1000 ahead.
Finally, on the last night I went back and in 2 different sessions lost $600 (at the 25 table), and $200 (at the $5), despite making big bets at really good counts. This time things went the dealers way instead of mine. That gave me a net of 4k on a trip bankroll of 800 or so.
I know a lot of it was luck (or variance), but I did have a ton of bad luck as well as a lot of good. The difference was that during the bad runs I was betting $5 much of the time and during the good luck I was doing a lot more !. Obviously, just like the last night, I could have had bad luck with big bets out instead of good luck, and I don't expect to make money all the time, but I am encouraged to put it mildly !
I know I need to get the last couple of bs boxes that I don't have down 100% by studying next time before I go. I also need to practice counting ahead of time. I did very well, but still feel like that was a weak point, especially having to talk at the same time.
The biggest thing though was probably the ability to wong in and out without drawing heat, and being able to do as big a spread as I wanted without getting heat.
I would love to hear comments.
