6:5 single deck question

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adventureboy

Member
Hello, I'm a long time reader and a first time poster! I play a lot of Blackjack in Mississippi. I really like single deck----obviously it is a lot easier to count down 1 deck than it is a 6 deck shoe. Here is the single deck situatuion in Mississippi:
Double any 2 cards
Dealer Stand on S17
split pairs up to 4 times....w/ double after split
split Aces up to 4 times....one card only
No Surrender
If I take my time I can find a dealer w/ about 60% penetration

Only one problem...blackjack pays 6:5

The good news is that with the 6:5 game there is no "Heat". I spread my bets from $25 to $400 and no one has said a word to me in over a year of part time play (8-10 times per month).

Last week I had a $300 bet up and drew a blackjack. The dealer had a 5 showing. I was so tired of being payed 6:5 that, on a whim, I said, "No thanks, I'm doubling down". The count was +5. The dealer looked shocked, called out "Doubling Down on Blackjack" and dealt me a 10! The pit boss sort of looked at me funny but walked away and never said a word.

My question---Can doubling your blackjack (with a + count) in a single deck 6:5 game be a long term profitable play? I have seached for a while to find any research on this and cannot find any. I know it would definetly be a good play if the count were high enough and the pentration really good. What are the count and penetration parameters that would make this a good play? Any help would be appreciated.
 
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Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
You can't win long term!

On 6 to 5 single deck blackjack you can not win in the long run no matter how good you are at counting or how well you spread your bet. A lot of the advantage that you get from having a positive count comes from you getting paid 3 to 2 on blackjack! If you double down on blackjack you are effectively doubling on 11 although you might win 60% to 70% of your bets it is overall a bad idea to double on blackjack and refuse a 120% payout. Even with the 6 to 5 payout I don't like to double down on blackjack in cash games.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
At the risk of encouraging you to play 6:5, yes you can beat 6:5 BJ with counting under very special conditions. Doubling down on a BJ vs 5 or 6 is a worthwhile play at high counts.

However there are enough good games to play in Mississippi you shouldn't even consider 6:5. Just go play a good game instead.
 
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Preston

Well-Known Member
adventureboy said:
Hello, I'm a long time reader and a first time poster! I play a lot of Blackjack in Mississippi. I really like single deck----obviously it is a lot easier to count down 1 deck than it is a 6 deck shoe. Here is the single deck situatuion in Mississippi:
Double any 2 cards
Dealer Stand on S17
split pairs up to 4 times....w/ double after split
split Aces up to 4 times....one card only
No Surrender
If I take my time I can find a dealer w/ about 60% penetration

Only one problem...blackjack pays 6:5
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Where in MS is this? MISSISSIPPI HAS THE BEST GAMES OUTSIDE OF VEGAS!!! You should have no prob lem finding a game that is decent and NOT 6 to 5. the most 6 to 5 I saw was in Tunica, but even that wasn' that much. There are double deck games everywhere.

Oddly enough, back in my early coutning days the only time I have even been backed off was at a 6:5 table at Grand Casino in Tunica. So the other games are pretty good.

the games you find may not be single deck though. Usually the double deck games are best.
 
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adventureboy

Member
Thanks for the responses! Yes, I do play a lot of double deck, and the game is beatable. I do find that the penetration of double decks is RARELY more than 50%, and in some cases a little less. As a part-time player I have to make the most out of my time in the casinos, so I usually play for 8-10 hours at a time. It is just a lot easier (and therefore more enjoyable) to count 1 deck for 10 hours (vs multiple decks). I vary from basic strategy with the count, and take or deny insurance with the count. I was hoping to double on blackjack in certain situations (maybe +5 count vs dealer 4,5,6) to add a little +EV to the single deck game. However, from what you guys are saying, 6:5 cannot be beat no matter what I do (legally, of course!). If anyone feels differntly, I would love to hear from you. Until then I will have to dump this single deck pipe dream and stick to double deck!

BTW--I play in Biloxi, Gulfport, Bay St. Louis....New Orleans and Baton Rouge occasionally.
 
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Preston

Well-Known Member
Believe me, it is not much harder to count two decks instead of one.

I can guarantee the double deck will be more worth your time. And you will probably get less heat there too.

Pick up a copy of American Casino guide to spell out the best games in town. But being on the gulf coast you should be in good shape.



comparing 6:5 to 3:2...

This is how much it is costing you: Every time you have $100 you should be getting paid $150, but at 6:5 you get paid $120. Think of it as a commision on the game. a 20% commision. doesn't sound as good anymore, does it?
 
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EagleA10

Member
Please don't encourage them

In addition to the good advice from everyone else, please consider this: by playing the 6:5 single deck games, you're just encouraging the casinos to continue this travesty. So, please, take the advice: switch to DD 3:2 ... please. :eek:
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
EasyRhino said:
For straight counting? Or only if you're using fancy stuff?
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For straight counting - 85% pene/no heat - 1-20+ spread. And, I'm more likely to see some holecards in this game too. zg
 
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Negrocan

Member
It is great to see somebody actually trying to play the game instead of sitting around on their daddy's computer crying all day and night about 6:5. We need more and more people to play the game so it can easily spread to all locations. Thanks for doing your part. Keep up the good work.
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
Negrocan said:
It is great to see somebody actually trying to play the game instead of sitting around on their daddy's computer crying all day and night about 6:5. We need more and more people to play the game so it can easily spread to all locations. Thanks for doing your part. Keep up the good work.
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You mean you want more ploppies to play the game. The game wont spread if the only people who are playing it are beating the game.
 
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adventureboy

Member
I keep pretty good records of my play. I have played just over 100 hours of 6:5 over the last year, and I am ahead. My win rate is $65 per hour with a spread of 1-16 ($25 units). I am not sure what my win (or loss) rate "should" be---I don't have the software necessary to calculate that. Have I just been lucky with 6:5? I play double deck as well and my win rate is higher per hour, but I can play single deck for longer stretches without breaks.
 
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Cardcounter

Well-Known Member
6 to 5 game vs Reno-Tahoe 10-11 only game!

The 6 to 5 game has a 3 times bigger house advantage than the Reno-Tahoe game that restricts doubling down to 10-11 only and they pay you 3 to 2 on blackjack. The double on 10 or 11 only game in Tahoe is only an average game and it is 3 times better than the 6 to 5 game! If you happen to find a really good game like the one offered at the Siena or Boomtown when you can double on any first two cards but not after a split and blackjack pays 3 to 2 the house advatage is around 6 times higher for a 6 to 5 game!

The 6 to 5 allows you to double down on any two cards and allows you to double after a split those last two rules are good rules for the player but getting paid only a 6 to 5 for blackjack wipes out the advatage of those rules.
Also on 6 to 5 blackjack you are usually not allowed to take even money on blackjack because the math no longer works out for the house.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Negrocan said:
It is great to see somebody actually trying to play the game instead of sitting around on their daddy's computer crying all day and night about 6:5. We need more and more people to play the game so it can easily spread to all locations. Thanks for doing your part. Keep up the good work.
Click to expand...
LVHCM member said something complimentary! zg
 
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