A serious question on financing a team.

[shadroch]

How do most teams handle expenses such as airlines,car rentals,meals,ect,ect.
What if part of the team lives in Vegas and has a home,but the majority live on the EC and need transportation and lodging?

 

[RJT]

My experience with teams is limited, but from what i've seen the best way is for the team to cover all expenses. You minimize expenses as far as you can, and this is assuming that the team is play off a decent sized bankroll.
I know that in the situation that you describe that could seem unfair (due to the EC player's traveling expenses getting paid), but the LV players have to ask themselves, 'would we have a team without these guy?'. Also when playing AC or other venues outside Nevada, the same privilage would be extended to the LV players.
If you only play in Vegas you're not going to last long.

RJT.

 

[moo321]

Sleep at the Vegas players' houses. Eat peanut butter sandwiches at their place, and you only have to pay airfare and maybe $20 a week.

 

[shadroch]

:whip:

Sleep at the Vegas players' houses. Eat peanut butter sandwiches at their place, and you only have to pay airfare and maybe $20 a week.

Sure,and I suppose we could get a job.
Seriously,though.It certainly isn't fair to expect someone to allow everyone to crsh at their house,nor would we want tur straight counters( those who don't vary their bets) should get more than enough food comps to take care of some meals,and a two bedroom suite at The Grand Desert runs around $500 a week,while sleeping six.Full kitchen,and poolside BBQ pits,while escaping the all-seeing eye of the casino.
Some quick math;
5 RT airline tickets from the EC= $1800.
2 rent a cars for a week =$400
week at GD= $500
food for a week for 5=200.

A team of 5 is out $600 a person before they sit down at a table.

 

[moo321]

I mean, if you have a huge bankroll, then by all means go ahead and spend all that money. Otherwise, a penny saved is a penny earned, and I'd crash on someone's couch and eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for a little more EV. There's also an off chance that a camera in the hall might notice you guys sharing a room with people you allegedly don't know, but that's an off chance.

What about paying the Vegas players a little bit of money for crashing at their house? Maybe I'm just cheap, but cutting costs just makes a whole lot of sense to me.

 

[glovesetc]

keep expenses down

Is a fair and prudent ay to run the team . Watch the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves . I also agree with the statement that you will need to play alot of other places then just Vegas . You will have to have an itinerary all set up as to where and when to go and buying tickets ahead online saves a ton of money :grin:

 

[Automatic Monkey]

I really don't think normal expenses would be that big of a deal. Do you realize how easy it is to lose $2K on one shoe spreading green? Expenses pale in comparison to variance.

The way I would handle it is everyone is responsible for their own expenses, no exceptions. You eat steak, you come home with a little less, you eat PB&J, you come home with a little more. Expecting players to room together and eat whatever is cheap places undue stress on people. Travel expenses- that's commuting, deal with it.

 

[moo321]

I really don't think normal expenses would be that big of a deal. Do you realize how easy it is to lose $2K on one shoe spreading green? Expenses pale in comparison to variance.

The way I would handle it is everyone is responsible for their own expenses, no exceptions. You eat steak, you come home with a little less, you eat PB&J, you come home with a little more. Expecting players to room together and eat whatever is cheap places undue stress on people. Travel expenses- that's commuting, deal with it.

Why is that undue stress? Didn't anyone here ever live in a dorm?

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Why is that undue stress? Didn't anyone here ever live in a dorm?

Yes, and it sucked. Give a student a chance to move into his own apartment and he jumps at it.

Besides we're all adults now with different lifestyles and schedules. A $40 motel room doesn't seem unreasonable for a mid to high-stakes player, which is by definition what you are if you are on a team. When I'm out on a BJ trip a good meal and refreshing night's sleep are fully worth their price. If it allows me to play even one hour longer it's paid for in EV.

 

[shadroch]

Thats why I'm thinking of a 2 bedroom condo -no casinos,so no cameras for the casinos to see..Enough room for comfort,but close enough to breed comradie.I may be old school,but my military background taught me that a true team is much more than a group of individuals working together.
As far as needing other places to play besides Vegas-thats for the future.
More than enough places in Vegas that we can exploit.Each casino has three shifts,so even limiting play to 5 casinos,you can play one casino a day for two weeks without ever seeing the same pitboss or dealer.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Thats why I'm thinking of a 2 bedroom condo -no casinos,so no cameras for the casinos to see..Enough room for comfort,but close enough to breed comradie.I may be old school,but my military background taught me that a true team is much more than a group of individuals working together.
As far as needing other places to play besides Vegas-thats for the future.
More than enough places in Vegas that we can exploit.Each casino has three shifts,so even limiting play to 5 casinos,you can play one casino a day for two weeks without ever seeing the same pitboss or dealer.

You can still get a decent room Downtown Sun-Thu for dirt cheap, and you can get a room on the weekend someplace for $50-60 if you reserve ahead. Overall that's going to be cheaper than renting a condo- any idea what the rent on a 2BR condo is these days?

It may be counterintuitive, but you are going to be safer staying at random motels than at a fixed base because of your bankroll. All you need is one clown on the team to bring back a whore or a toking buddy who realizes there is money there, and now The Street is going to know of a place where they can go for a really big score and if it happens, someone is probably going to die. When you're a road warrior no one, neither criminal nor security knows where or when they are going to find you.

There are plenty of places Downtown now with cheap rooms and no playable BJ where you can stay safely because you aren't going to be playing there at all.

 

[zengrifter]

Sleep at the Vegas players' houses. Eat peanut butter sandwiches at their place, and you only have to pay airfare and maybe $20 a week.

You can save the 20/week if you skip the p&j sandwhiches and eat on comps, right? zg

 

[Sonny]

You can save the 20/week if you skip the p&j sandwhiches and eat on comps, right? zg

Not if you're giving away >$20 in tips, which is easy to do. Sure, It's just as easy to give away $0 in tips, but that's a personal decision that some people would not even consider.

-Sonny-

 

[glovesetc]

5 casinos enough places to play ?

If a casino makes you - even by accident you are done in basically all of Nevada . I would think going to mid size casino around the country would be a better idea but then again I am way too old to travel and I do not need the money . I just go to New York every week and do my thing . I agree with the above poster automatic monkey that I always eat in the best restaurants and stay at the best hotels whenever I travel whether for BJ or fun or golf . Life is too short not to enjoy myself !!!!!veal marsala , strip steak , rack of lamb versus PBAJ - that is as automatic as doubling 11 against a 6 in my book - take the first always . A good popint was raised also with security and the large amounts of money you will be carrying or having stashed . The average bank robber nets a little over $3,000.00 in a robbery and is looking at 20 years if a gun is used . say you have $25,000.00 between you which is not a whole lot of money - however a crook knows he can only get maybe 7 years with a gun taking you down which is about 8 times the money they would get in a bank heist and way less time . Factor in banks have cameras and you do not . Factor in response time to a bank hold up versus a hotel room robbery as well . Which one gets faster response time and more manhours put into solving it . Stay away from broads as well - they can hardly wait till they can tell their girlfriends I banged a high roller and then pretty soon the word gets to some guys who may not be Vegas most upstanding citizens and you go down . You need great planning and contingencies set up in my opinion and have it all down pat before you even think about it . I wish you all the luck in the world cause i love it when a casino gets taken to the cleaners . keep the forum posted on how well you do !!!!!!!!!!!1 :grin:

 

[Bojack1]

You can still get a decent room Downtown Sun-Thu for dirt cheap, and you can get a room on the weekend someplace for $50-60 if you reserve ahead. Overall that's going to be cheaper than renting a condo- any idea what the rent on a 2BR condo is these days?

It may be counterintuitive, but you are going to be safer staying at random motels than at a fixed base because of your bankroll. All you need is one clown on the team to bring back a whore or a toking buddy who realizes there is money there, and now The Street is going to know of a place where they can go for a really big score and if it happens, someone is probably going to die. When you're a road warrior no one, neither criminal nor security knows where or when they are going to find you.

There are plenty of places Downtown now with cheap rooms and no playable BJ where you can stay safely because you aren't going to be playing there at all.

Sounds as if someones been reading too many dime store novels. Although I don't know shadroch, I have a feeling there won't be too many hookers hanging around or the bringing of strangers into the condo to do drugs. If this is at least a semi serious venture into a counting team effort, then there is no need for the over dramatics. There is always a need for caution when traveling with money, paranoia on the other hand leads to stupidity in decision making. I have been traveling with fairly large sums of money for years. I have never been robbed nor has any of those that I've trusted enough to play with been stupid enough to be careless with the dregs that inevitabley come with the casino atmosphere. Put it this way, if you want to indulge in low class acts, chances are you are going to reap what you sow. If you are an average person with an ounce of street smarts, than any crime committed aginst you will be a truly unfortunate random act that probably wouldn't have changed no matter what you did. As those things do happen, its rare, and not in need of overdramatic hype about the dangers of the "Street". Depending on the size of the bankroll being traveled with its usually fine to have each member carry some, and then use a safe or safety deposit box for the rest. Or you can wire money to yourself or a trusted teamate before you get to your destination and take it only if you need it. That way the bankroll doesn't even exist until you pick it up. I will agree there are many inexpensive hotels to stay at where you won't even play, but it doesn't matter where you are staying, if you do stupid things, stupid things will do you.

 

[shadroch]

You can still get a decent room Downtown Sun-Thu for dirt cheap, and you can get a room on the weekend someplace for $50-60 if you reserve ahead. Overall that's going to be cheaper than renting a condo- any idea what the rent on a 2BR condo is these days?

It may be counterintuitive, but you are going to be safer staying at random motels than at a fixed base because of your bankroll. All you need is one clown on the team to bring back a whore or a toking buddy who realizes there is money there, and now The Street is going to know of a place where they can go for a really big score and if it happens, someone is probably going to die. When you're a road warrior no one, neither criminal nor security knows where or when they are going to find you.

There are plenty of places Downtown now with cheap rooms and no playable BJ where you can stay safely because you aren't going to be playing there at all.

Yes,as I stated the Grand Desert rents 2 bedroom condos for about $500 a week.They are huge,sleeping six people very comfortably and have full kitchens,as well as BBQ pits. Its a much better option than renting two or three hotel rooms a night for a week.Security is much tighter there than a casino where anyone can enter.
Security is an issue,but lets not forget I'm used to handling very large amounts of cash. The weekend reciepts from my club were always in the hi-five figures,sometimes more on holiday weekends.
What happens if we get made? We split up and its over.No big deal. Its not my lifelong career.But at the stakes we'll be playing and the techniques we'll be using-I don't see us getting on anyones radar.No holecarding,no shuffle-tracking. Just straight spreads and a cautious use of a gorilla is what I have in mind.I'd like to have a rotating crew of eight expert players,but then again,I'd like to have Jennifer Alba as my gorilla.Right now,I have four wannabes,myself included.

 

[Sonny]

If a casino makes you - even by accident you are done in basically all of Nevada.

My experience has been quite different. After a backoff you are often fine playing at other casinos, even when they are owned by the same company, as long as you use a different name or play anonymously. Communication between casinos is often very poor and often non-existent when the properties are not affiliated. It can also be easy to play at the same casino on a different shift if you are careful. I seriously doubt that the average card counter could get a state-wide ban even if he tried. Unless you are making four- or five-figure bets (or cheating) you can get all the action you need if you are careful.

-Sonny-

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Sounds as if someones been reading too many dime store novels. Although I don't know shadroch, I have a feeling there won't be too many hookers hanging around or the bringing of strangers into the condo to do drugs. If this is at least a semi serious venture into a counting team effort, then there is no need for the over dramatics. There is always a need for caution when traveling with money, paranoia on the other hand leads to stupidity in decision making. I have been traveling with fairly large sums of money for years. I have never been robbed nor has any of those that I've trusted enough to play with been stupid enough to be careless with the dregs that inevitabley come with the casino atmosphere. Put it this way, if you want to indulge in low class acts, chances are you are going to reap what you sow. If you are an average person with an ounce of street smarts, than any crime committed aginst you will be a truly unfortunate random act that probably wouldn't have changed no matter what you did. As those things do happen, its rare, and not in need of overdramatic hype about the dangers of the "Street". Depending on the size of the bankroll being traveled with its usually fine to have each member carry some, and then use a safe or safety deposit box for the rest. Or you can wire money to yourself or a trusted teamate before you get to your destination and take it only if you need it. That way the bankroll doesn't even exist until you pick it up. I will agree there are many inexpensive hotels to stay at where you won't even play, but it doesn't matter where you are staying, if you do stupid things, stupid things will do you.

I agree in that I have no reason to believe Shadroch would be patronizing prostitutes or experimenting with drugs, besides the fact that he will be a male in Las Vegas. It's astounding how weak any man can become when he is tired or frustrated. I'd be a liar if I said I've never in my life done those things, and I think most of the rest of us would be too.

But I have no idea who his teammates are nor what they do in their private lives. As a Republican I'm big on the distinction between public (in this case, business) and private, and when you live with the people you work with that distinction becomes blurred. If I'm working with someone and he wants to engage in some vice after work, that's his business and I don't want to know about it, just like I don't want him to know about my vices. On the other hand, if I'm comingling finances with someone and he's addicted to drugs, I do want to know about it, but not by being in the room while he's doing it.

You're right about the stupid things being your undoing, and I believe that living separately is the best way for people to isolate themselves from each other's stupid things. I've been on many corporate business trips and even as a low-level guy I was never asked to share a room with a colleague. You're wrong in underestimating the dangers of becoming known for keeping large amounts of cash in a home. Word of such things travels, and a home invasion robbery is very likely to feature a gruesome death. :gun:

 

[Reno Dude]

My experience has been quite different. After a backoff you are often fine playing at other casinos, even when they are owned by the same company, as long as you use a different name or play anonymously. Communication between casinos is often very poor and often non-existent when the properties are not affiliated. It can also be easy to play at the same casino on a different shift if you are careful. I seriously doubt that the average card counter could get a state-wide ban even if he tried. Unless you are making four- or five-figure bets (or cheating) you can get all the action you need if you are careful.

-Sonny-

I think a lot of people are too nervous. I was backed off a table and I continue to play at the same place during the same shift once a week on the same day of the week with the same PB that made me leave. He has even said hello to me while I was playing a week after he backed me off. I dont think he remembers me or cares although Im sure he will back me off again if he catches me again.

 

[bj bob]

As a Republican I'm big on the distinction between public (in this case, business) and private.....robbery is very likely to feature a gruesome death. :gun:

Monk, no wonder why you're so damned paranoid. A Republican living in the Constipation State!