Ace Side Counting Questions

[assume_R]

Looking for some advice on ace side counting.

1. Firstly, I've heard some conflicting reports, but do you add the number of extra aces per undealt deck to the RC or TC? My impression is TC.
2. Does CVdata's ace side count add the Aces to the RC or TC?
3. How do you know how much to add to the count? +1? +2 in some games? What if you set an outrageously high number like +5? What will happen?
4. You subtract the extra aces dealt thus far to the count, correct? (i.e. not just add for extra undealt aces, but subtract for extra dealt aces) Does cvdata do this too?
5. Tips please on how you keep it in your head! I practiced saying "5A, 4B, ..." in my head yesterday at the casino for each ace dealt, but then you have to quickly know which letter you're supposed to be at, at each point in the deck/shoe? How costly are these mistakes compared to just using an ace-reckoned count?
6. How many of you have success with this?

Thanks in advance.

 

[zengrifter]

Looking for some advice on ace side counting.

1. Firstly, I've heard some conflicting reports, but do you add the number of extra aces per undealt deck to the RC or TC? My impression is TC.
2. Does CVdata's ace side count add the Aces to the RC or TC?
3. How do you know how much to add to the count? +1? +2 in some games? What if you set an outrageously high number like +5? What will happen?
4. You subtract the extra aces dealt thus far to the count, correct? (i.e. not just add for extra undealt aces, but subtract for extra dealt aces) Does cvdata do this too?

NONE of the above if Ace is already reckoned in the main count. zg

 

[FLASH1296]

You use a Count without reckoned Aces, e.g. Hi-Opt I or Hi-Opt II
You use whatever value your Face Cards are tagged with.

The [Surplus / Deficit] ACES are [added / subtracted] [to / from] the RUNNING COUNT.

I use the alpha-numeric system too.

All you need do is memorize a pneumonic device spelling out the 4th, 8th, 12th, etc. ordinal letters.

D - H - L - P - T - X

 

[NightStalker]

answers

1) Depends on the system. eg hi-lo: adjust extra aces to make ace effectively 0 to get higher PE.
2) I think it uses side count only to update RC for betting purpose, not for playing purpose.
3) Sim it, based on the count.

Looking for some advice on ace side counting.
5) that's a secret...

1. Firstly, I've heard some conflicting reports, but do you add the number of extra aces per undealt deck to the RC or TC? My impression is TC.
2. Does CVdata's ace side count add the Aces to the RC or TC?
3. How do you know how much to add to the count? +1? +2 in some games? What if you set an outrageously high number like +5? What will happen?
4. You subtract the extra aces dealt thus far to the count, correct? (i.e. not just add for extra undealt aces, but subtract for extra dealt aces) Does cvdata do this too?
5. Tips please on how you keep it in your head! I practiced saying "5A, 4B, ..." in my head yesterday at the casino for each ace dealt, but then you have to quickly know which letter you're supposed to be at, at each point in the deck/shoe? How costly are these mistakes compared to just using an ace-reckoned count?
6. How many of you have success with this?

Thanks in advance.

 

[assume_R]

The [Surplus / Deficit] ACES are [added / subtracted] [to / from] the RUNNING COUNT.

I was talking to monkey, and he said that for each surplus ace per remaining deck I should consider that like an additional TC. Perhaps I heard him incorrectly, or maybe he can chime in here...

 

[assume_R]

whoops

Mods, sorry, but if you want to merge this with the other ace side counting thread I didn't see that one first.

 

[assume_R]

I think I understand something a bit better now. So if after 4 / 6 decks have been dealt, there are 13 Aces seen, there should have been 16. So I add +6 to the RC and then divide by 2 decks remaining (assume the 10's are +2). That is exactly the same, but stated differently, as there being 3 extra aces per 2 remaining decks (with each extra Ace per remaining deck increasing the TC by +2).

So after 1 deck is dealt, I should be at "D". If I am at "C", I add +2 to the RC. If I am at "E" I add -2 to the RC. That's 0.2 extra aces per remaining deck. Am I missing anything at all here?

 

[tthree]

All 2s are not the same

I think I understand something a bit better now. So if after 4 / 6 decks have been dealt, there are 13 Aces seen, there should have been 16. So I add +6 to the RC and then divide by 2 decks remaining (assume the 10's are +2). That is exactly the same, but stated differently, as there being 3 extra aces per 2 remaining decks (with each extra Ace per remaining deck increasing the TC by +2).

So after 1 deck is dealt, I should be at "D". If I am at "C", I add +2 to the RC. If I am at "E" I add -2 to the RC. That's 0.2 extra aces per remaining deck. Am I missing anything at all here?

I dont think its the same thing. The time you multiply by 2 that is the point count for the ten value cards. When you divide by 2 it is the number of decks remaining. The equivalence is just a coincidence.

Its 0.25 extra aces.

 

[assume_R]

I dont think its the same thing. The time you multiply by 2 that is the point count for the ten value cards. When you divide by 2 it is the number of decks remaining..

Oh I know that. In the first paragraph, I was saying that for each extra "unseen" ace, we do:

TC = (RC + Extra_Aces * Ten_Value) / Decks_Remaining

That is the same as:

TC = RC / Decks_Remaining + Extra_Aces * Ten_Value / Decks_Remaining

which is

TC = Old_TC + Ten_Value * Extra_Aces_Per_Unseen_Deck

so that each extra ace per remaining deck increases the TC by a certain amount.

 

[tthree]

Your equations are right the words are harder to follow. It looks like you have it.

 

[zengrifter]

I was talking to monkey, and he said that for each surplus ace per remaining deck I should consider that like an additional TC. Perhaps I heard him incorrectly, or maybe he can chime in here...

Its RC but if you are using an Ace reckoned count then just fuhgettaboutit! z:laugh:g

 

[zengrifter]

I think I understand something a bit better now. So if after 4 / 6 decks have been dealt, there are 13 Aces seen, there should have been 16. So I add +6 to the RC and then divide by 2 decks remaining (assume the 10's are +2). That is exactly the same, but stated differently, as there being 3 extra aces per 2 remaining decks (with each extra Ace per remaining deck increasing the TC by +2).

So after 1 deck is dealt, I should be at "D". If I am at "C", I add +2 to the RC. If I am at "E" I add -2 to the RC. That's 0.2 extra aces per remaining deck. Am I missing anything at all here?

Still doesn't add up. Ace-reckoned count, right? You cant simply add the so-called "extra Ace" per deck to the RC and get an extra +1 for betting without balancing it against something else first.

This is skewed theory at best. Or maybe I'm mistaken? QFIT? Fred? DR. Stork? AutoMonk? Spaw? zg

 

[tthree]

Your right zg ace reckoned counts are stuck with a poor IC and PE. You cannt adjust for aces without unbalancing the count. Ace neutral counts can surpass ace reckoned in BC by a simple ace adjustment. Plus they have far superior PE and IC.

 

[zengrifter]

Ace neutral counts can surpass ace reckoned in BC by a simple ace adjustment. Plus they have far superior PE and IC.

I have issues with that, too. z:laugh:g

 

[jack.jackson]

I think I understand something a bit better now. So if after 4 / 6 decks have been dealt, there are 13 Aces seen, there should have been 16. So I add +6 to the RC and then divide by 2 decks remaining (assume the 10's are +2). That is exactly the same, but stated differently, as there being 3 extra aces per 2 remaining decks (with each extra Ace per remaining deck increasing the TC by +2).

So after 1 deck is dealt, I should be at "D". If I am at "C", I add +2 to the RC. If I am at "E" I add -2 to the RC. That's 0.2 extra aces per remaining deck. Am I missing anything at all here?

This is perfectly correct.

Heres another example: You have a RC -6/F(6) with 3/6 decks remaining,

You should be at L(12) so you must add +2 for each Ace to your RC. 6x2=12

Now Add 12 to your RC -6+12=+6

Now divide by 3 decks to get your adjusted TC=+2.

Once you get adjusted TC immediately revert back to -6/F


Im actualy not a fan of the Alpha-numeric method. I found it easier just to keep the number of counted aces as they are on the right side of my RC. Its a little easier once you get the hang of it.

 

[assume_R]

Still doesn't add up. Ace-reckoned count, right? You cant simply add the so-called "extra Ace" per deck to the RC and get an extra +1 for betting without balancing it against something else first.

This is skewed theory at best. Or maybe I'm mistaken? QFIT? Fred? DR. Stork? AutoMonk? Spaw? zg

I will use a non-Ace-reckoned count for most playing decisions. So it works for an ace-free count as long as I also subtract it for ace deficits, right?

 

[zengrifter]

I will use a non-Ace-reckoned count for most playing decisions. So it works for an ace-free count as long as I also subtract it for ace deficits, right?

No, not really.
Not when taking into account what other areas you had best put your attention on.
Keying the Aces, for example, is a much more productive use of Ace-awareness, which is especially easy at 2D.
What count are you using now? zg

 

[tthree]

I will use a non-Ace-reckoned count for most playing decisions. So it works for an ace-free count as long as I also subtract it for ace deficits, right?

Correct. This will give you a higher BC than HILO plus extremely high PE and IC. The best of all worlds.

 

[FLASH1296]

Side Counts Aces can be employed two ways:

It can be done by comparing the number of Aces seen
relative to normal Ace density. e.g. In a DD game you
are at the 50% point and two Aces have been depleted
from the cards. As normal would be four Aces., You have
a surplus of TWO ACES. You add TWICE the value of your
Face Card to your R. C. (same as True Count at this level)

The other way — more applicable to a shoe game — would be
to balance Aces against (an uncounted low card e.g. deuces).
This will work well, but cannot be as accurate as the above
because it is possible to have Aces and Deuces depleted in an
anomalous fashion.

Not only does an Ace Side Count radically improve your Playing Efficiency
it improves your Insurance decisions and your Betting Correlation as well.

 

[assume_R]

Im actualy not a fan of the Alpha-numeric method. I found it easier just to keep the number of counted aces as they are on the right side of my RC. Its a little easier once you get the hang of it.

Can you elaborate? Do you mean visualizing the number of aces on the "right side" of the RC in your head?