Adding insult to injury

[blackchipjim]

I cannot believe the casinos are bringing those damn csms back again. Is it all over the place or just the place I go. I walk in the other day and there they are and people are playing. I asked the dealers and was told they don't like them back either. What is with these places bringing the machines back thinking that will improve thier take they didn't before. blackchipjim

 

[Blue Efficacy]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. The suits feel better if they do something (even if it doesn't work) than if they do nothing. That way they feel like, at least they tried to increase their hold!

 

[GeorgeD]

Local joint here added 4 CSM on BJ tables back about July and hasn't added more since. Maybe they're still in a trial period, but mu observation is less people play them. They may get full on a Sat night when there's no other tables.

 

[ihate17]

They keep trying

There was a guy hired by a casino a few years ago to be their table game manager. His previous job was either in Europe or for a European cruise line running their games. His experience with blackjack was total use of CSM's, so our genius was going to get more hands per hour in a U.S. casino by having these machines installed.
He never took into consideration that in his previous position the casino's players had no choice because either there was no competition or all the competition used CSM's. Result? The same exact result that every U.S. casino, with non CSM competition has had, a huge drop off in drop and of course profits. Side result, unemployment for our genius.

Casino management will keep trying to find ways to increase profits on blackjacik. That is their job. Shufflemaster salesmen will continue to try and convince these managers that their product is the answer. That is their job.
Blackjack players, even some of the worst of ploppies, when given a choice of CSM or no CSM will pick the non CSM game over and over again, perhaps you can say that is their job.
Casino management once they see their numbers drop will go try something else.

Finally, the worsening of rules by the casino is probably much more of an effective tool than the CSM. The average player may have superstitious but strong feelings against playing a CSM game but has no clue as to how rule variations can and are hurting his wallet.

ihate17

 

[FLASH1296]

C.S.M.'s

Historically speaking, C.S.M.'s get installed and then, perhaps six months later, they are removed from (most) casinos. The exceptions are places like the Bellagio in Las Vegas where the table minimums are too high for the casual tourist - so they are presented with two choices. Play for more money than is affordable or resign themselves to playing the C.S.M.'s The tourist has promised his wife that he will keep his (modest) family man's budget in mind at all times. But if you are "living it up" and staying at the beautiful Bellagio and you know little or nothing about blackjack you probably do not know the difference anyway. Besides, if you are a Basic Strategy player it is not a reason to avoid playing. Also, if a casino has no competition from neraby casinos, they will be more prone to putting in C.S.M.'s.

Last week I played at The Seminole Hard Rock in Hollywood, Florida. Seven miles from Fort Lauderdale. There is a (large) pit of C.S.M. tables with minimums as low as $10 or $15 during off hours and $25 during 'prime-time'. Those stakes are LOW in that casino, where the Six Deckers are $200 minimums only during "off-hours". When busy they are $300 and $500 minimums. The other three (big) BJ Pits are all 8 deckers that use A.S.M.'s (Automatic Shuffle Machines). There are no other land-based legal casinos, so they can do as they wish and being on sovereign Native American Reservation land they need nobody's approval for what they choose to do, as with Atlantic City Casino's dealings with the N.J. Casino Control Commission.

 

[sagefr0g]

...

Last week I played at The Seminole Hard Rock in Hollywood, Florida. Seven miles from Fort Lauderdale. There is a (large) pit of C.S.M. tables with minimums as low as $10 or $15 during off hours and $25 during 'prime-time'. Those stakes are LOW in that casino, where the Six Deckers are $200 minimums only during "off-hours". Mostly they are $300 and $500 minimums the rest of the time. The other three (big) BJ Pits are all 8 deckers that use A.S.M.'s (Automatic Shuffle Machines). There are no other land-based legal casinos, so they can do as they wish and being on sovereign Native American Reservation land they need nobody's approval.

lol what are they nuts?
i'm sure glad i moved my residence up out of there.
moved just before Seaescape went belly up (that was a decent outfit) and Hard Rock got it's table games. never dreamed they'd have such a slimmy operation. :whip:

 

[creeping panther]

Csm

I have noticed them going away and the BJ getting better, that is where there is lots of competition. Competition is GOOD!

CP

 

[blackchipjim]

The competition

I have to agree with you on competition. I noticed that business fell off the last time they introduced this infernal machines. When casinos in nearby states got table games business fell off further. It's too bad that the casinos think that these things will make more because alot of non counters won't play them either. The general mood was against the machines and people won't play them they would rather wait for a hand dealt shoe. blackchipjim

 

[callipygian]

Just out of curiosity, why do non-counters dislike CSM's? Before I was a counter, I actually liked them and disliked sitting there waiting for a dealer to hand-shuffle.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Just out of curiosity, why do non-counters dislike CSM's? Before I was a counter, I actually liked them and disliked sitting there waiting for a dealer to hand-shuffle.

Simple- there's no "flow" to the cards with a CSM! Ploppies break down their sessions into "good shoes" and "bad shoes" and are more likely to raise their bet if they believe they're having a good one. That's why you'll never see a CSM in a high-limit area.

 

[bj bob]

And add to that..

Simple- there's no "flow" to the cards with a CSM! Ploppies break down their sessions into "good shoes" and "bad shoes" and are more likely to raise their bet if they believe they're having a good one. That's why you'll never see a CSM in a high-limit area.

....the fact that there's something "sneaky" about a computer arranging the cards in some mysterious order. I love to propagate that myth when standing around a CSM table. The ploppies actually buy that line of BS, hook, line and sinker!

 

[UK-21]

I put forward a very convincing arguement, deliberately within earshot of people playing, that CSMs double the House Edge, and that even a sound player making just one playing error or deviating from BS every fifty hands (2%) was now facing an edge of around 2.5% - effectively the same as a spin of a roulette wheel. So much for BJ being the best game in the house for gamblers???????

Final word? "if they benefited the player, they wouldn't be there, would they?"



Newb99

 

[ihate17]

Mainly it is the Sacred Flow Of The All Knowing Cards

Just out of curiosity, why do non-counters dislike CSM's? Before I was a counter, I actually liked them and disliked sitting there waiting for a dealer to hand-shuffle.

High limit table or lowest limit in the casino, just listen to the players who constantly donate their money to the casino. The Flow this, the Flow that. The guy hit when he was supposed to stay and changed the Flow, etc etc etc. They all believe that some great power gave the cards a brain, that shoes are set up for the cards to Flow perfectly but because of some hit or a new dealer burning a card the Flow of the cards changes and all players are punished by the blackjack gods.
All superstitious garbage but it is perhaps the most important garbage there is when it comes to blackjack.
The zealots of the All Knowing Flow are the ones who support the game of blackjack and if you install a non Flowing CSM, they will desert you for your sacreligious practices and give that business to your competition who understands and takes advantage of the superstitions of blackjack players.
These zealots of stupidity are the most important and powerful blackjack players in existance because without them there would either be no blackjack at all or no blackjack that an AP could take advantage of.

Just hail to the ploppy!!! He who gives his money to the casino so we can skim a bit of it off the top. Without him there would be much much less.

ihate17