Al Francesco's new website
- Thread starter zengrifter
- Start date
(Archive copy)
zengrifter
Banned
And for the record - the ZG Interview reveals Francesco
NOT to be the inventor of the BP team approach. zg
NOT to be the inventor of the BP team approach. zg
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
Only one or two singledeck tables. $100 or $200 minimum depending on time. Part of me wants to sit down and play a few hands there. Part of me does not.
Lots of 2D and 6D games. Mins are $5 and $10 on the shoes, $25 and $50 on the doubledeck. Rules are H17 DOA DAS LS. Penetration is usually bad on the doubledeck games, about 1.5d on the shoes.
Lots of 2D and 6D games. Mins are $5 and $10 on the shoes, $25 and $50 on the doubledeck. Rules are H17 DOA DAS LS. Penetration is usually bad on the doubledeck games, about 1.5d on the shoes.
summathguy
Member
While on the subject of Barona....
I contacted Barona today. I talked to a pit boss named Gino (sp). He informed me that the penetration on DD was "half a deck". I responded with "Awesome, you only cut off 26 cards in your DD game?!" and he confirmed. He also said 6D had 1 deck cut off. Though in his defense he added "to about a quarter" which would be 1.5D.
I usually play 6 deck at Pechanga (Same rules as Barona above except no LS on 6D) but the lowest shoe game there is $15 @ nonpeak hours and penetration is 1.5 to 2 decks (if I wink at a dealer to go a bit closer to her hand, it usually works).
Anyway, after reading your response it makes me think Gino was less than honest with me. I live ~ 10 minutes away from Pechanga; how is Barona's attitude towards skilled players (read "counters")? In anyone's opinion is it worth the extra hour drive to play at Barona versus Pechanga?
(I found this thread searching for BJ conditions @ Barona)EasyRhino said:
I contacted Barona today. I talked to a pit boss named Gino (sp). He informed me that the penetration on DD was "half a deck". I responded with "Awesome, you only cut off 26 cards in your DD game?!" and he confirmed. He also said 6D had 1 deck cut off. Though in his defense he added "to about a quarter" which would be 1.5D.
I usually play 6 deck at Pechanga (Same rules as Barona above except no LS on 6D) but the lowest shoe game there is $15 @ nonpeak hours and penetration is 1.5 to 2 decks (if I wink at a dealer to go a bit closer to her hand, it usually works).
Anyway, after reading your response it makes me think Gino was less than honest with me. I live ~ 10 minutes away from Pechanga; how is Barona's attitude towards skilled players (read "counters")? In anyone's opinion is it worth the extra hour drive to play at Barona versus Pechanga?
EasyRhino
Well-Known Member
Okay first, never ever ever use the word "penetration" when talking to any casino employee anywhere.
Second, be incredibly careful naming personnel in a public forum. Actually, better idea: just don't do it.
And thirdly, Gino is a dirty damn liar. I think I've seen penetration exceed 60% on the doubledeck games once. Penetration on the 6D games once in a while gets down to 1D, but it's usually pretty consistent at 1.5d.
Regarding their "tolerance" of counters, well, it's tough to say, isn't it? They do see a pretty good amount of big bettors, but that's not the same thing as tolerating APs. Interestingly, while googling something, I discovered this article from a few years ago:
http://grochowski.casinocitytimes.com/article/max-rubin-invites-card-counters-to-play-15883
Personally, I don't believe it one bit.
Second, be incredibly careful naming personnel in a public forum. Actually, better idea: just don't do it.
And thirdly, Gino is a dirty damn liar. I think I've seen penetration exceed 60% on the doubledeck games once. Penetration on the 6D games once in a while gets down to 1D, but it's usually pretty consistent at 1.5d.
Regarding their "tolerance" of counters, well, it's tough to say, isn't it? They do see a pretty good amount of big bettors, but that's not the same thing as tolerating APs. Interestingly, while googling something, I discovered this article from a few years ago:
http://grochowski.casinocitytimes.com/article/max-rubin-invites-card-counters-to-play-15883
Personally, I don't believe it one bit.
summathguy
Member
I figured he was lying. Not trying to flame or anything, but what does referring to it as penetration to a casino employee hurt? Granted, I mainly play at Pechanga but it's been my experience that the pit bosses there really don't give a **** about anything unless you're betting black consistently. I've never once been hassled and I think it's fairly obvious I'm a counter. I don't play hands when the CPD < -2 and I spread incrementally from $15 -> $150, $150 when the CPD > +4. It may be that I'm a familiar face there so they leave me alone, I'm not sure.
Small side story as evidence about the pit crew there for my point if you're interested: One time I was playing at a table and a completely drunk fool is sitting first base with stacks of black, at least $6k. He's betting table max=$500 a hand and doubling down on stiff 12-14 hands. The guy couldn't lose , he was catching 9s and 8s and winning. One of the regular pit bosses is getting nervous and says to the supervisor of the pit area "Is there any way he can know what card is coming out next?" and the supervisor replies "What? Like card counting?" The pit boss replies "Or something, I don't know." I was heckling the pit boss while it was all going on saying the player had X-ray glasses. Long story short, the drunken player made it up to about $12k and then lost it all leaving the table broke (though not before tipping the dealers @ least $200 and the other players at the table at least $50 each during his run--me included :laugh: ).
Anyway, my point is the people working the pits there make like $20/hour and are clueless or could care less about counters (red/green chip counters, anyway). I figured it's the same at other Indian casinos in SoCal so I don't stress the employees much. Do you think my experiences are rare? I mean, what can they really do? They could try to bar me I suppose but none of the pit bosses are really all that confrontational--I'd say most are timid and I kind of have a **** talking poker attitude (read "annoying and arrogant") so none have really "stepped up", so to speak.
Small side story as evidence about the pit crew there for my point if you're interested: One time I was playing at a table and a completely drunk fool is sitting first base with stacks of black, at least $6k. He's betting table max=$500 a hand and doubling down on stiff 12-14 hands. The guy couldn't lose , he was catching 9s and 8s and winning. One of the regular pit bosses is getting nervous and says to the supervisor of the pit area "Is there any way he can know what card is coming out next?" and the supervisor replies "What? Like card counting?" The pit boss replies "Or something, I don't know." I was heckling the pit boss while it was all going on saying the player had X-ray glasses. Long story short, the drunken player made it up to about $12k and then lost it all leaving the table broke (though not before tipping the dealers @ least $200 and the other players at the table at least $50 each during his run--me included :laugh: ).
Anyway, my point is the people working the pits there make like $20/hour and are clueless or could care less about counters (red/green chip counters, anyway). I figured it's the same at other Indian casinos in SoCal so I don't stress the employees much. Do you think my experiences are rare? I mean, what can they really do? They could try to bar me I suppose but none of the pit bosses are really all that confrontational--I'd say most are timid and I kind of have a **** talking poker attitude (read "annoying and arrogant") so none have really "stepped up", so to speak.
summathguy
Member
That's all true. I've just never seen a pit boss there that would have that kind of balls. After all, there's only so many ways they can leave the casino when their shift was done and they probably live in the area. It wouldn't be smart to piss off a local, especially if they have a family--not for their lousy salary from a casino that pulls in millions a day. You are absolutely right though, it only takes one that has the hutspa to do something dumb. Not trying to make a racial stereotype but in my experience, the white people really don't care at all (dealers and pit bosses) where as the asian employees seem to be more on the casino's side.
Though on a side note, I've heard plenty of non-counters complain to the dealers (and pit bosses if they're listening) that they cut too much of the deck. I absolutely know these customers were not counters because they also complain about insane things like "don't sit in, it's a good shoe you're going to mess up the cards" or yelling "No" when hitting 12 vs. a 2/3 (even when the count is negative which at that point is a complete no-brainer). I used to play about 25 hours / wk for a few months there and I've seen 'em all and laughed at most of their superstition. All things considered, you are absolutely right and I should watch what I say. Thanks for the good advice.
Though on a side note, I've heard plenty of non-counters complain to the dealers (and pit bosses if they're listening) that they cut too much of the deck. I absolutely know these customers were not counters because they also complain about insane things like "don't sit in, it's a good shoe you're going to mess up the cards" or yelling "No" when hitting 12 vs. a 2/3 (even when the count is negative which at that point is a complete no-brainer). I used to play about 25 hours / wk for a few months there and I've seen 'em all and laughed at most of their superstition. All things considered, you are absolutely right and I should watch what I say. Thanks for the good advice.
So why do you and why don't you lol?EasyRhino said:
Would you say the DD game at least deals to 50%? Was it you who recently said somewhere you recently started playing DD because you could afford it? If it was, I didn't understand why you thought that.
The 4.5/6 game might have possibilities, especially back-counting if that's possible.
zengrifter
Banned
Lawrence Revere. And that's not even in Snyder's Big Book. zgEl Gordo said: