Another advantage player pisses me off

ihate17

Well-Known Member
Generally, other AP's do not annoy me. I either move on or he moves on but in this case we are not talking about AP in the sense that we usually talk about it. Here ii is purely hustling the trusting, ignorant novice.

I am at this table where the player at first base is in agony about nearly every decision. Out of nowhere he is approached by a guy wearing a suit that looks typical of casino wear but no nametag. The hustler volunteers to show this guy how to play for 50% of his winnings. His sales pitch included the mention that he averages making over $500 per hour at blackjack! Perhaps the first or second hand the player gets 3,3 vs dealer 4 and the hustler tells him it is a bad split. Even on the most obvious plays the player asked for advice and advice was given, often incorrectly.

The table got very hot on a negative shoe and though I won a lot of minimum bets, everyone else won more but the next shoe was heaven. High count dealer always seemingly showing a lower card and I am either getting blackjack, a 20, hands like 19 vs dealer 7, or little cards that added up to 9,10, or 11 while the dealer was showing a stiff most often. I am on my best little run in months and not watching the novice and the hustler as much as I did in the previous shoe. Suddenly the novice hands his mentor $450 (50% of his win, I guess) and the hustler puts it into the circle. He wins the hand and walks with $900 in less than 20 minutes. Now I am thinking that this guy did not lie when he stated he makes over $500 per hour at blackjack, I just had to see how he did it to understand.
As tables go for novices and ploppys, ours shortly cooled off and our novice lost whatever he won earlier and I left on the next negative count.

At another in their HL area on the same evening, I spot the hustler with a lady at a table other than the one I played on. Apparantly, business is good for these guys.
Business for these kind of guys must be always good. Player loses and he has already explained "nothing works all the time but playing this way I make over $500 per hour." Player wins and he takes his chips and bets to double it or perhaps walks away.

This kind of advantage play bothers me.

ihate17
 
If..

ihate17 said:
Generally, other AP's do not annoy me. I either move on or he moves on but in this case we are not talking about AP in the sense that we usually talk about it. Here ii is purely hustling the trusting, ignorant novice.

I am at this table where the player at first base is in agony about nearly every decision. Out of nowhere he is approached by a guy wearing a suit that looks typical of casino wear but no nametag. The hustler volunteers to show this guy how to play for 50% of his winnings. His sales pitch included the mention that he averages making over $500 per hour at blackjack! Perhaps the first or second hand the player gets 3,3 vs dealer 4 and the hustler tells him it is a bad split. Even on the most obvious plays the player asked for advice and advice was given, often incorrectly.

The table got very hot on a negative shoe and though I won a lot of minimum bets, everyone else won more but the next shoe was heaven. High count dealer always seemingly showing a lower card and I am either getting blackjack, a 20, hands like 19 vs dealer 7, or little cards that added up to 9,10, or 11 while the dealer was showing a stiff most often. I am on my best little run in months and not watching the novice and the hustler as much as I did in the previous shoe. Suddenly the novice hands his mentor $450 (50% of his win, I guess) and the hustler puts it into the circle. He wins the hand and walks with $900 in less than 20 minutes. Now I am thinking that this guy did not lie when he stated he makes over $500 per hour at blackjack, I just had to see how he did it to understand.
As tables go for novices and ploppys, ours shortly cooled off and our novice lost whatever he won earlier and I left on the next negative count.

At another in their HL area on the same evening, I spot the hustler with a lady at a table other than the one I played on. Apparantly, business is good for these guys.
Business for these kind of guys must be always good. Player loses and he has already explained "nothing works all the time but playing this way I make over $500 per hour." Player wins and he takes his chips and bets to double it or perhaps walks away.

This kind of advantage play bothers me.

ihate17
the guy bothers you so much why not go out to annoy him????

I can think of many ways....but then, it is REALLY non of your business,,,is it??:confused:

Keep a low profile, much better that way. ;)

CP
 

White Guy

Well-Known Member
Wow if people are that dumb its their fault not his. Sounds like an easy way to make money off of idiots. Sleazy, but easy. Just like some pyramid scheme or other type of BS that preys on people with low IQ's. I would never do that mind you but damn what retards.
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
Kept my low profile

creeping panther said:
the guy bothers you so much why not go out to annoy him????

I can think of many ways....but then, it is REALLY non of your business,,,is it??:confused:

Keep a low profile, much better that way. ;)

CP

I definately minded my own business but the casino folks kind of surprised me. The dealer knew what was happening but minded his own business also, but a pit critter came alongside the hustler, listened in and then moved on.

ihate17
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
Yes and no

Blue Efficacy said:
As long as this hustler isn't teaching his victims legit advantage play, the casinos are probably all for it.
I certainly understand what you are saying here and from the hands I saw the guy is probably teaching his sucker how to play at a 2.5% disadvantage or worse, so the casinos might even hire guys like these. Similar but worse to what I saw on TV on my last Vegas trip. They had that Barney guy (check the travel channel Vegas shows) teaching different games. When it came to blackjack he made some glaring basic strategy errors.

At the same time if this guys got 50% of the win of a lucky novice and did not bet it but cashed it out, never playing himself, I would think the casino would take the attitude that they would have gotten that money had it stayed in the hands of the novice.

A final thought is that the hustler looked very very familar but I still can not put his face to a place.

ihate17
 

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
Baiting

I would advise against any comments or interaction with either player. This is a classic flush the counter out trick it has been used on me but I didn't bite. They set you up to verify what they already suspect you of. You say something or get too comfortable to slip and say something to the effect that you have more information than that idiot and that seals your fate. blackchipjim
 

moo321

Well-Known Member
blackchipjim said:
I would advise against any comments or interaction with either player. This is a classic flush the counter out trick it has been used on me but I didn't bite. They set you up to verify what they already suspect you of. You say something or get too comfortable to slip and say something to the effect that you have more information than that idiot and that seals your fate. blackchipjim
Hmm... didn't think of that.
 

Thunder

Well-Known Member
Depends.. If he was already at the table before you got there, odds are that he isn't working for the casino. There's a difference between being a con man and an AP. Either way I think it would be wrong for you not to say anything to the person he is swindling. If you need more clarification, think of it this way. If you see a guy getting robbed and you don't report it to police, in some jurisdictions you can be convicted of wanton disregard. Of course you won't get convicted of that in the casinos because they want more action. The moment you lose your morals playing in the casinos, is the moment you need to quit gambling as you then become no better than the evil people who run the casinos or the devil himself.
P.S. They're not going to peg you as a counter necessarily because you give some obvious basic strategy advice.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
blackchipjim said:
I would advise against any comments or interaction with either player. This is a classic flush the counter out trick it has been used on me but I didn't bite. They set you up to verify what they already suspect you of. You say something or get too comfortable to slip and say something to the effect that you have more information than that idiot and that seals your fate. blackchipjim
In what kind of bizarre world does a casino set up TWO shills to defraud each other in the chance that it will get a card counter to report something that anyone with half a brain would be able to catch on to... and for this tactic to be considered "classic".

If they want to catch a counter, they just need to have surveillance clock his play. It's not rocket science.
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
Huh???

blackchipjim said:
I would advise against any comments or interaction with either player. This is a classic flush the counter out trick it has been used on me but I didn't bite. They set you up to verify what they already suspect you of. You say something or get too comfortable to slip and say something to the effect that you have more information than that idiot and that seals your fate. blackchipjim

Seems very far fetched to me. A lot easier to just count down several shoes from the eye than to get two casino employees who are decent actors to put on a show at the table for 20 minutes, and then use one of the same actors at a different casino, on the same night, but at a different table than where I was playing.

Anyway, if I was to have done anything it would have been mentioning to the pit what was going on and not to the players. The sucker was winning anyway at the time and he would have been deaf to anything I had to say. The pit knew what was going on and did not care!
Did I want to take this up higher in the casino food chain and still think I could keep myself somewhat invisible there? No!

ihate17
 

Mimosine

Well-Known Member
Thunder said:
There's a difference between being a con man and an AP. Either way I think it would be wrong for you not to say anything to the person he is swindling.
here is where i disagree.

I think in this situation it is best to keep your mouth shut. If someone is sitting at a table, and not playing BS, they have already proven that they are a sucker. they have already accepted their fate. I can't imagine that this guy in a suit would get anyone to 'bite.' Nevertheless, it is good to keep a low profile in these situations, you make a note of the faces, but don't let them make a note of yours. You let them work their hustle, because it gives you cover. One of the best games I ever played was in reno. I walk into an empty joint with one of the best SD games around, and I'm like great, i'm not going to be able to play that aggressively. Low and behold, a whale walks in 5 minutes later as is playing 2-3 hands of table max. I played almost as long as he did.

The point is, these 'hustlers' are a distraction to your action. The dealer and the pit's attention will be 100% on them. It's like when i spread big on low limit games, if there is someone at the table betting 2-3X my max, the pit doesn't even care about me.


futhermore, directly confronting this person might not be the best idea, if you try to give the hustlee advice you don't know what the consequences are for you. what if the hustler is smarter than you, walks away and rats you out!

I have a big mouth at the table once in awhile, like whenever someone tells me how to play a hand, especially when they are horrible, and give horrible advice to other people. but these people i've already pegged as being idiots. not smart enough to know a winning player or even basic strategy when they see it.

someone who is conning people, and being successful at it, is smarter than you think.

personally, i think this story is almost unbelievable, be it not for the source, I can't imagine anyone falling for this. If they do, then it is a mess that you should try to avoid too.
 
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