Anyone tried Gold Touch?

[eddiejenkinson]

Was wondering if anyone has tried Golden Touch by Frank Scoblete

He tried counting just Aces and Tens and put it over a billion of hands on a compuer and found no player advantage. He was going to give up, but tried doing it with low numbers and found a player advantage of about 0.6% ie 0.006.

It's a really easy system to use and can be learnt in a few hours.

This is how it works

On average you are dealt 3 cards in a hand of blackjack

Probability of getting low card (2,3,4,5,6) is

4 x 5 = 20

ie 20/52 = 0.38

So you would expect 3 x 0.38 low cards = 1.15, so about one low card in each hand on average.

So what you do is this

Start at 6 at beginning of shoe (you can start at 0, but this way minimises negative numbers)

Count how many players including dealer say 5 for example.

So you take 5 away from 6 which is 1

When the hands are dealt you count low numbers and add them to running total, so if 8 low cards were dealt you get 1 + 8 = 9

The bigger the value over 9 it is the more you bet.

Was wondering if anyone has tried this or tried variations?

Does it work with progression betting to hide the fact of card counting?

I'm just waiting for book and was wondering peoples experience

 

[Sonny]

Was wondering if anyone has tried this or tried variations?

It sounds like a variation on the OPP system:

http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/On_The_Math_Behind_The_OPP.htm

Try searching this site for OPP and Speed Count to find lots of information about that system.

Does it work with progression betting to hide the fact of card counting?

No. It is already a weak system so using a progression betting system with it would kill the tiny advantage you have. You don't need to worry about cover with a system like this because it is not very accurate in the first place. It's inefficiency is it's cover.

-Sonny-

 

[QFIT]

This IS Speed Count. Avoid.

 

[eddiejenkinson]

Unbalanced Systems

Thanks for advice. Have a lot of time on my hands at the moment and want to get good at a system.

Have also considered Ace/10 front count with 4 decks. Would this work at busy times when I stand behind a good player in uk and place behind him when not many high numbers have come out. I would n't need to vary bets then. Not sure if this rule of placing bets behind a player works like it does in uk.

Have thought about hi/low, but don't like dividing by decks left.

Has anyone had experience with unbalanced counts like knock out count, it seems to be alot easier than hi/low because you don't need to divide by decks?

 

[ChefJJ]

Have thought about hi/low, but don't like dividing by decks left.

Has anyone had experience with unbalanced counts like knock out count, it seems to be alot easier than hi/low because you don't need to divide by decks?

I started with Hi-Lo and have been using KO for a while now. I like it for that reason exactly, but others will tell you the merits of other systems as well.

Sounding like a broken record player, I endorse KO because it is easy to use (no RC/TC conversion) and I can customize the IRC and trigger points in the count for my personal liking. :joker: My 2 cents.

good luck

 

[shadroch]

KO is much,much better than Golden Touch. Another very good unbalanced system is KISS by Fred Renzey,a frequent contributor on this forum. Its in his book Blackjack Bluebook 2.

 

[eddiejenkinson]

spreading bets

I started with Hi-Lo and have been using KO for a while now. I like it for that reason exactly, but others will tell you the merits of other systems as well.

Sounding like a broken record player, I endorse KO because it is easy to use (no RC/TC conversion) and I can customize the IRC and trigger points in the count for my personal liking. :joker: My 2 cents.

good luck

Cheers Mate, have read up and it seems quite easy. At least you don't have to devide by number of decks or take away the number of players from total.

Was wondering a few things though...

When I read up, it says to spread your bets between 1 and 5 units or greater. Won't that give it away? Can you use some kind of progression when you have the edge?

For example

Bet one unit if count is low, perhaps the odd 2. Then when you have a high count vary use 3 one time then 5, then 6, then 4, then 2. Which would give an average of 5 units?

Also what is your edge, for different spreads using balckjack with 4 decks, the dealer sticks on S17, with no surrender, where you can split any cards and double up on anything. But you can only draw one more card after spliiting aces. (But can't double)?

I can spare 3/4 hours a day. How long would it take me to master this?
:whip:

 

[ChefJJ]

Eddie,

Not having to convert the count is the strong point of an unbalanced count like KO or KISS, with a slight tradeoff in efficiency.

As far as using a progression rather than linking the spread to the count: the progression approach is a lot weaker than the "kelly-based" bet levels.

I highly recommend reading the KO book if you are interested in understanding what kind of edge you've got with particular rules, spreads, etc. It really helps you to understand WHY you are changing bets at certain count levels, deviating from BS at those times, etc. Understanding this makes it a lot easier to use without much thought.

In closing, don't rush learning card counting. You should perfect basic strategy, learn how to count, adapt counting to game-like situations, and fully understand what the counting system means in regard to gameplay. The casinos will be there when you have this stuff down.

good luck

 

[eddiejenkinson]

Eddie,

In closing, don't rush learning card counting. You should perfect basic strategy, learn how to count, adapt counting to game-like situations, and fully understand what the counting system means in regard to gameplay. The casinos will be there when you have this stuff down.

good luck

Cheers thanks for advice. I will get the book and learn at my own pace.

 

[la_dee_daa]

When I read up, it says to spread your bets between 1 and 5 units or greater. Won't that give it away? Can you use some kind of progression when you have the edge?

you need the spread to get take advantage of the advantage unless you chouse to wong and not play negative counts.
For 6 deck games or 8 deck games you need to start spreading more then 10units. its only is double deck or single deck you spread 1-5 or whatever

A progression will mess up your Risk of ruin which is not good.

:cow:

 

[eddiejenkinson]

you need the spread to get take advantage of the advantage unless you chouse to wong and not play negative counts.
For 6 deck games or 8 deck games you need to start spreading more then 10units. its only is double deck or single deck you spread 1-5 or whatever

A progression will mess up your Risk of ruin which is not good.

:cow:

Cheers, isn't it difficult to come in out of a game?

How about if you see a good player who uses basic strategy, can't you play behind him?

 

[la_dee_daa]

Cheers, isn't it difficult to come in out of a game?

How about if you see a good player who uses basic strategy, can't you play behind him?

well usually you want to play games with few players so wonging in and out of games like this isn't difficult when there are many open spots.
When you play at full tables there are less rounds delt and when you start getting a high count it will last for few rounds as like a running count of something like +10 can be gone in one round where if you are playing heads up with the dealer you have a few more rounds till it would drop for an example.

like by play behind him do you mean add your bet to his and let him play out the hand or what? Even in this case arrises the table is full so that is not good, in higher counts there are bs diviations you should make to get more of an advantage. And in most cases i don't trust any players full bs ability they may do most of them but when it comes to soft double downs or some splits or surrenders they might not make the correct play. Iv seen players with bs cards in front of them at the table still make mistakes when they failed to look at the card. i wouldn't do it..

:cow:

 

[eddiejenkinson]

Wonging and bs Vegas

well usually you want to play games with few players so wonging in and out of games like this isn't difficult when there are many open spots.
When you play at full tables there are less rounds delt and when you start getting a high count it will last for few rounds as like a running count of something like +10 can be gone in one round where if you are playing heads up with the dealer you have a few more rounds till it would drop for an example.
:cow:

It seems so different here in the UK.

Casinos here don't seem to like those bs cards. I like the idea of wonging, but don't casinos get supisious?

I have a bit of money saved up, and was thinking about Vegas in 6 months or so, once I have got a lot better at counting?

Is it okay to use bs cards there? Do you have to have id, like here in UK

Also if they suspect you of counting, do they tell all the other casinos in Vegas?

Or is there a better place to go?

Cheers Eddie

:cat:

 

[Chapel]

It seems so different here in the UK.

Casinos here don't seem to like those bs cards. I like the idea of wonging, but don't casinos get supisious?

I have a bit of money saved up, and was thinking about Vegas in 6 months or so, once I have got a lot better at counting?

Is it okay to use bs cards there? Do you have to have id, like here in UK

Also if they suspect you of counting, do they tell all the other casinos in Vegas?

Or is there a better place to go?

Cheers Eddie

:cat:

Even if you aren't backcounting Wonging is good strategy. Blackjack moves in streaks (we normally call that streak the count) so a lot of people who are passingly familiar with the game will watch a game until they see 3 or 4 'wins' in a row before sitting down.

 

[la_dee_daa]

It seems so different here in the UK.

Casinos here don't seem to like those bs cards. I like the idea of wonging, but don't casinos get supisious?

I have a bit of money saved up, and was thinking about Vegas in 6 months or so, once I have got a lot better at counting?

Is it okay to use bs cards there? Do you have to have id, like here in UK

Also if they suspect you of counting, do they tell all the other casinos in Vegas?

Or is there a better place to go?

Cheers Eddie

:cat:

by the time you can count that you can hold your own in a casino you should know bs like the back of your hand.

the casinos in vegas might only tell their sister casinos and will only pick up that you are counting if you play for high enough stakes.

what type of bankroll are you planning to play with?

:cow:

 

[sagefr0g]

Even if you aren't backcounting Wonging is good strategy. Blackjack moves in streaks (we normally call that streak the count) so a lot of people who are passingly familiar with the game will watch a game until they see 3 or 4 'wins' in a row before sitting down.

streek count? that's a new one on me. please tell me it's a good sign if there are lots of full ashtrays and smiling faces. :cat:
just curious what's the theory behind the streek count?

 

[QFIT]

streek count? that's a new one on me. please tell me it's a good sign if there are lots of full ashtrays and smiling faces. :cat:
just curious what's the theory behind the streek count?

The emptier the ashtrays, the healthier the players.

 

[InPlay]

The emptier the ashtrays, the healthier the players.

What if it's a none smokeing table ? Is that table any better than a smokeing table ?

 

[la_dee_daa]

streek count? that's a new one on me. please tell me it's a good sign if there are lots of full ashtrays and smiling faces. :cat:
just curious what's the theory behind the streek count?

the theory behind the streak count is that if the players win 3 or 4 hands in a row the table is HOT and that there is a very high probability that the next hand will win. This is based on the fact that if you see something happen its likely that it will happen again, what every that theory is called. Since the majority of the blackjack population has proved this fact we shall accept that it is right.
This also applies to roulette, craps, the coin flip game.

or this is at least my version of the steak count..

one of my friends keeps giving me advice like this that if you lose 3 hands in a row leave the table!!! he has his system of this and i have my system of counting which lacks consistancy on play and what not which makes it bad

:cow:

 

[la_dee_daa]

What if it's a none smokeing table ? Is that table any better than a smokeing table ?

well in BC there is now no smoking in casinos.. at all... so i guess every table must be a lucky table:grin:

:cow: