Bank Roll & Cash Flow

[ChefJJ]

General Questions:

Just to get a gauge for everyone's approach to a session or trip, what do you set aside as your session stake?

Of course, if I ask that, what is your base bet and what do you spread?

Do you set aside a certain percentage of your total bankroll when you approach a session or trip?

What % return on your session stake do you anticipate earning?

 

[ScottH]

General Questions:

Just to get a gauge for everyone's approach to a session or trip, what do you set aside as your session stake?

Of course, if I ask that, what is your base bet and what do you spread?

Do you set aside a certain percentage of your total bankroll when you approach a session or trip?

What % return on your session stake do you anticipate earning?

You should get a ROR calculator to find out for your spread, game, and session lenth. I usually bring around 100 units each session.

 

[jimpenn]

$2,000 Br

If I go to AC for the day (8 hrs. play) two sessions, I'll take $2,000 and backcount entire playing time. I don't even take a seat anymore. I will not place a negative count bet in two day trip. I just play to "get away" for a few days. As long as I cover total expenses it's a good trip for me.

 

[ChefJJ]

You should get a ROR calculator to find out for your spread, game, and session lenth. I usually bring around 100 units each session.

I don't want to calculate ROR, but I appreciate the info. I was just trying to get a feel for how different approach their bankroll/session stake/spread/minimum bet stuff. I respect anyone's desire for confidentiality, but I was just asking out of general curiosity and for the sake of "discussion". Like what JimPenn wrote.

 

[Sonny]

Most of my bankroll is invested, but I usually keep 100-150 units handy for weekend trips or unexpected opportunities. I have access to another 200 units in case of emergency as well.

As far as expected return for a session, I don’t even think about it. My trips are usually only 16-32 hours of play so I don’t invest too much concern in the results. Obviously I would prefer to win, but I don’t ever expect to win. Sometimes I calculate the probability of winning a particular trip in order to motivate teammates or partners.

For my overall ROI I don’t really think in terms of units or percents because my strategies will change dramatically from game to game. My advantage at one table may be significantly different than my advantage at the next table over (and so my bets will be much different as well). I think more in terms of dollars per hour. If I can’t earn a decent “wage” from a game then I will look for a better one. I’m not worried about how many units I’m up or down, I just care about how many dollars are going back into my pocket.

-Sonny-

 

[shadroch]

My unit is $10. I bring 100 units with me,if its overnite or for a week.But I have lines of credit in AC,and the ability to cash checks anywhere.
I don't have a specfic BJ bankroll,just a seperate account for gambling,vacations,ect,ect.I add a little to it each month for growth,but can replace any losses instantly.

 

[ScottH]

I don't want to calculate ROR, but I appreciate the info. I was just trying to get a feel for how different approach their bankroll/session stake/spread/minimum bet stuff. I respect anyone's desire for confidentiality, but I was just asking out of general curiosity and for the sake of "discussion". Like what JimPenn wrote.

You asked what people set aside for a "session stake". That's usually a ROR question. You have to ask yourself what percent of the time are you willing to lose all your money and "go home early". The more often you bust out, you are losing playing time.

I like to have a 1-2% session ROR. With a 1% session ROR, you will only go broke 1 out of 100 sessions, which is perfectly acceptable. To get a 1-2% session ROR, it's usually around 100 units, but it depends on a lot of other factors. That's why I suggest a ROR calculator.

That's how I decide what my "session bankroll" is. I used to bring 40 units, but at Cass's recomendation I started bringing 100. After that there were many times when I would be down over 40 units and would have had to go home, but almost all times I won all my money back. It's good to have a small ROR so variance doesn't kick you in the ass!

 

[bj bob]

Defining "session"

The term "session" is thrown around quite a lot on this forum, so, just for the record. Do you consider a session a 20min.-90min. "seating" at a particular table, or is it more of a daily "work day" type of framework in which you're playing anywhere from 6-10 hrs(table time) hopping in and out of casinos and/or pits?

 

[ChefJJ]

The term "session" is thrown around quite a lot on this forum, so, just for the record. Do you consider a session a 20min.-90min. "seating" at a particular table, or is it more of a daily "work day" type of framework in which you're playing anywhere from 6-10 hrs(table time) hopping in and out of casinos and/or pits?

Good question. I would think a several-hour period, but it depends how you play...you know, wonging, sticking with it, taking a pee break when its really low, etc. I don't think it is a universal term.

 

[ScottH]

The term "session" is thrown around quite a lot on this forum, so, just for the record. Do you consider a session a 20min.-90min. "seating" at a particular table, or is it more of a daily "work day" type of framework in which you're playing anywhere from 6-10 hrs(table time) hopping in and out of casinos and/or pits?

The term session to me is quite simple, how long you will be playing that day. If you are planning on playing for 5 hours, that is your "session". It doesnt make sense to me to define a session by a certain amount of time, say 60 minutes. If you plan on playing 3 hours you will be playing 3 sessions. I'd just call that one 3 hour session.

 

[jetace]

The term session to me is quite simple, how long you will be playing that day. If you are planning on playing for 5 hours, that is your "session". It doesnt make sense to me to define a session by a certain amount of time, say 60 minutes. If you plan on playing 3 hours you will be playing 3 sessions. I'd just call that one 3 hour session.

Same here, tracking your time would not be feasible if you included every wonging/bathroom break. You take bathroom breaks while still on the clock at work, why not include those breaks as part of your job as a counter :grin:

 

[ChefJJ]

Same here, tracking your time would not be feasible if you included every wonging/bathroom break. You take bathroom breaks while still on the clock at work, why not include those breaks as part of your job as a counter :grin:

It would then seem like you are accruing -EV when you piss then :grin: Is peeing as bad as tipping then? Maybe you know of a calculator for that Scott?

Just kidding guys...thought that last post was a good shot.

 

[shadroch]

Bathroom breaks are a integral part of comp counting.You lose zero while on break but are being credited with playing large bets during the time,if you play it correctly.

 

[jimpenn]

The LVH will deduct bathroom time if you are being rated for F&B.

 

[EasyRhino]

Incidentally, I had a "failed" bathroom break last weekend. Played a shoe game with one other guy at the table. Count was very bad halfway through. took a bathroom break. Dawdled. Walked out of bathroom, saw shoe still wasn't finished took leisurely stroll around pit, noticed that both the dealer AND the player were looking at me. Circle back around, find table, sit down, they were worried that I had forgotten where my table was (common problem I guess!).

Unfortunately, the guy was so superstitious that he stopped playing entirely while I was in the bathroom.

 

[jimpenn]

that's funny...

 

[ScottH]

It would then seem like you are accruing -EV when you piss then :grin: Is peeing as bad as tipping then? Maybe you know of a calculator for that Scott?

Just kidding guys...thought that last post was a good shot.

If you really want to get technical, yes, bathroom breaks or any break for that matter is -EV, monetarily speaking. I know you were joking, but it's easy to figure out the loss without a calculator. If a bathroom break takes you 5 minutes, you lost 5 minutes of playing time, and you should know how much that is from your hourly EV.

I do think breaks are -EV. When I'm at the casino I wan to get as much action as possible. In fact, when me and supercool played in that 3-card poker promotion we were really extreme about breaks. It was so good we did not want to miss a single hand. We estimated our EV to be about 2.50 per hand, and I dont want to pay 2.50 or 5 bucks to go take a piss, lol. We played for about 12 hours straight, with hardly any breaks. I only took a break when they were changing cards, or making a complicated payout that took the dealers a while.

Anytime I have gone to the bathroom is has actually been +EV. I only go to the bathroom during a negative count. Sometimes I go when I dont even have to. When I do really have to go, well I hold it in until a negative count hits. If it takes a while, it sucks not going to the bathroom, but I should be getting paid for it with the nice counts!

So yeah, I'm extreme enough to even base when I take a break on EV. Those little 5 minute breaks add up after a while. Counts bad enough to wong out occur frequently enough that you should be able to time any breaks you need to a negative count. If you gotta go anyway, you might as well make it during a negative count and save yourself some money.

 

[ChefJJ]

If you really want to get technical, yes, bathroom breaks or any break for that matter is -EV, monetarily speaking. I know you were joking, but it's easy to figure out the loss without a calculator. If a bathroom break takes you 5 minutes, you lost 5 minutes of playing time, and you should know how much that is from your hourly EV.

I do think breaks are -EV. When I'm at the casino I wan to get as much action as possible. In fact, when me and supercool played in that 3-card poker promotion we were really extreme about breaks. It was so good we did not want to miss a single hand. We estimated our EV to be about 2.50 per hand, and I dont want to pay 2.50 or 5 bucks to go take a piss, lol. We played for about 12 hours straight, with hardly any breaks. I only took a break when they were changing cards, or making a complicated payout that took the dealers a while.

Anytime I have gone to the bathroom is has actually been +EV. I only go to the bathroom during a negative count. Sometimes I go when I dont even have to. When I do really have to go, well I hold it in until a negative count hits. If it takes a while, it sucks not going to the bathroom, but I should be getting paid for it with the nice counts!

So yeah, I'm extreme enough to even base when I take a break on EV. Those little 5 minute breaks add up after a while. Counts bad enough to wong out occur frequently enough that you should be able to time any breaks you need to a negative count. If you gotta go anyway, you might as well make it during a negative count and save yourself some money.

No, I don't want to get technical about urinating...that's why it was a joke. I'd say wear a diaper if it is that bad then. :laugh: Another joke...and nothing personal.

Good luck

 

[bj bob]

Au Contraire!

Since it has been stated repeatedly on this forum by many sources(ala QFIT calculator) that Wonging out(via potty breaks, in this case)effectively actually increases EV sometimes dramatically. Notice I said "effectively". thus, in the case of removing one's self at a -19, for example with 2/3 others at the table in mid or 2/3 shoe for 5 mins. can only result in a positive experience for both your wallet and your bladder!:grin:

 

[ScottH]

No, I don't want to get technical about urinating...that's why it was a joke. I'd say wear a diaper if it is that bad then. :laugh: Another joke...and nothing personal.

Good luck

I knew you were joking but I felt like I should respond because it brought up a good point of timing breaks to negative counts. It's a good strategy to use to boost your EV.