Bankroll Management

[Lowrider]

The most powerful detriment to my game. Not just in BJ, or AP BJ, but in all aspects of gambling.

BM kept me from becoming an elite poker player...I had the requisite skills and everything else but with terrible BM I never got consistently above the GREAT level.

Though I am not OLD, I am NOT YOUNG anymore.

I truly believe a decent BS PLOPPY with good BM has a much better +EV than a good AP with bad BM. I am EXHIBIT A.

My BM atrocities don't rear their ugly head on a regular basis, but their appearances are frequent enough to murder my hourly win rate. I know myself well enough at this stage of my life to come to the conclusion that while serious improvement is needed in the area of BM, I probably do not have the ability to reign in my steam play to a reasonably harmless level.

2 of my last 3 sessions, I had terrible variance. In both instances I SHOULD have lost about 125 units, but I lost around 175 each time due to my inability to stick to my maximum bet limits. I just don't think I can control my steam play often enough to minimize its affect on my game.

This may be a leak that I cannot fix.

I have a decent bankroll.

I found a great game.

I have an acceptable ROR.

I have apply wonderful camo.

I tolerate reasonable variance...for a good hourly win rate.

But I cannot control my steaming and BM.

I just can't.

I am still up. But my debilitating BM has clearly affected my hourly win rate and caused an increase of probably 30% or so to my variance. It has also made me very angry at the tables which increases my steaming.

Is there any resource available that will help me deal with my murderous BM? I'll give it one last try before retiring from AP.

Thanks.

 

[Gamblor]

I know myself well enough at this stage of my life to come to the conclusion that while serious improvement is needed in the area of BM, I probably do not have the ability to reign in my steam play to a reasonably harmless level.

Steaming is pretty bad in BJ, but its beyond murderous in poker, and its not just variance. You'll get ripped to shreds by a decent player if your steaming in poker.

Not sure what resources can help you with this behavior, discipline and patience is key, that's all, accept it. Shoot, recently lost a $1200 pot in 1-2 NL no less with my trip 4's against a joker calling calling with 56 offsuit calling big pre-flop and flop raises. Worse part is I had the 3rd best hand :laugh: Meh, annoying, but that's poker. Just continued on playing my game. Sometimes you can use this, after a big loss, go all in with a good great hand, hoping somebody puts you on tilt.

Also lost hand after hand with a TC well above +10. It happens. Just play your game trying to make some of it back to a reasonable session loss, and come back another day.

 

[MangoJ]

Also lost hand after hand with a TC well above +10. It happens. Just play your game trying to make some of it back to a reasonable session loss, and come back another day.

Just yesterday I couldn't win a single hand for 13 consecutive rounds (the majority lost, only a few pushes), and all were spread to 2 hands. Imagine the count and betsize, it's a hefty bite into the bankroll.

 

[Friendo]

Do you enjoy gambling?

I don't like playing games of chance. I take no particular joy or meaning from a session. It feels okay to win - sort of a good feeling, but that's it - but it doesn't feel that bad to lose. I figure I'm in for a few thousand hours, and that the next hundred, as well as the all the hours I have played so far, mean nothing.

Was hammered recently on two hands at max bet, both 20s. Dealer had 4 up, 8 underneath, and pulled a 9. The only thought which came into my head was "well, I'll see this quite a bit in the next few years," and I shoveled out the next pair of max bets.

I say this because I think it would be easier to do this if I had a bit of the gambler in me. I don't get excited driving to the casinos and sitting through the first few shoes. Only as the day wears on do I get into the zone where I'm enjoying the chatter with the other players and the dealer, as well as the challenge of acting. I have never had the remotest desire to steam.

Sounds as if you have some of the gambler in you, so this activity is meaningful/exciting from the first hand. If I were you, I would use any pleasure you take in gambling to your advantage. Try to turn it into an act that looks like a steamer gambling junkie, while controlling it enough to be profitable.

Try to use your emotions to your advantage.

 

[Coyote]

Thank you for your candor Lowrider. Your post should serve as a warning to other new APs out there that they have to be on guard for this also. I can't say anything to help you, but take some encouragement in that you can see that you do have this gambler within. Maybe it will be something you can work on.

I used to be a smoker and I fell of the waggon many times before I finally quit.
Give yourself some positive self-talk before you hit the tables the next time. Say to yourself, "I will stay within my game! I have the strength and will to stay within my game!"

Best to you,
Coyote

 

[kewljason]

I am not going to comment on the OP's dilemma, since he has me on ignore and isn't interested in my thoughts. But I did want to expand on some of Friendo's thoughts as I too concentrate on only long-term results. I have stated a couple times, but will again, that one 'trick' if you will, that works well for me is measuring your results in EV rather than actual wins and losses. As long as you have adequate BR, you don't even consider the short term results, because in the end (longrun) whether you have a really brutal 3 standard deviation short-term swing to the south or a “perfect shoe”, win almost every hand, swing to the plus side, in the end, it will all even out and EV and actual results will come back together or reasonably close.

I know that my average EV for all games that I play is roughly 70 cents per hand, so at the end of the day if I have played 300 hands, well then I know that I have “made” $210, regardless of whether I actually won $1800 or lost $1400. At the end of the year, this day will have been worth $210 to me. Once you successfully train yourself to think this way, every day is a winning day. Now admittedly, having the flaw of being human, this is sometimes easier said than done. Sometimes on the really sudden huge wins and losses, I find those damn human emotions and thoughts trying to wiggle their way back into my head. It is still a process I am working on.

 

[Lowrider]

KJ - neither you nor anyone else is on my banned list anymore....life is too short to stay mad at something so trivial as an online fight...thanks for your comments

 

[Lowrider]

I don't mind bad variance, I don't like it but I accept it as part of AP BJ. What I cannot stand, and eventually my BK will NOT be able to sustain, is my additional contribution to negative variance by steaming which causes over betting which causes destruction to my bankroll.

I conservatively estimate that my steaming has in the aggregate cost me one bad session loss to my Bankroll that I would not otherwise have sustained.

I am eager to jump back in the saddle....so we shall see.

 

[zengrifter]

Is there any resource available that will help me deal with my murderous BM? I'll give it one last try before retiring from AP.

I am thinking hypnotic therapy? Or Neuro Linguistic Programming?
Tools that will aid you in those impulsive moments and prevent you from over-betting. Over-betting is THE killer. zg

Ps - Its quite simple - do not exceed your pre-determined maxBet. Also, do not deviate from your pre-determined betting ramp.
Barring this you are JUST a semi-literate-educated PLOPPIE.

 

[The Chaperone]

"disciplined" BS players are still -EV.

 

[Solo player]

For a counter blackjack is a marathon not a sprint. Patience, patience and more patience