Barred in AC?

[aslan]

I thought they couldn't bar players in AC for counting. My friend who is a poker player told me about his friend who is a high roller on the BJ tables. He bets as high as $15,000 on a hand if the house lets him do it. Well, he got barred from all the Trump casinos. I don't think he was doing anything more then counting, but they have him listed as a counter and cheater. This the first time I actually know (secondhand anyway) about a casino's attempt to smear a person's reputation because he is a counter. Ugly business!

 

[moo321]

Did they actually bar him, or just shuffle, or tell him to flat bet or something? If they barred him, and said he was a cheater, he could probably sue them.

 

[ihate17]

There must be more to this story

If true, then it might be the cheating, since they can not even back you off for counting.

 

[aslan]

Sue them

I said the same thing. He should sue them. My friend says he doesn't cheat, but then we don't know what evidence they might have. BTW, how do you cheat at BJ, anyway? All I know is that he got them for well over $100,000 and claims that he never cheated. I will see my friend again in AC probably this weekend and followup on this. I thought the days of mean-spirited casinos that try to besmirch your name just because you beat them were over...except in LV, that is.

 

[xxrenegadexx]

something doesnt add up here........... new jersey casinos cant throw anyone out because of counting alone

 

[aslan]

something doesnt add up here........... new jersey casinos cant throw anyone out because of counting alone

Correct. My friend thinks they trumped up (no pun intended) the accusation of cheating to get around the law. Unless he sues, he has no recourse but to stay away from all Trump casinos.

 

[shadroch]

This whole discussion about a friend of a friend of someone you met in AC who may have been accussed of cheating is just a it silly,imho.

 

[aslan]

This whole discussion about a friend of a friend of someone you met in AC who may have been accussed of cheating is just a it silly,imho.

Actually, the story was related to me by a friend of seven years who happens to be a full time poker player at present. I have absolutely no reason to doubt his veracity, as I have known and gambled with him on many occasions over the years.

If you think it's silly, that's your perogative. My curiosity was stirred by the implication that if they can't get you one way (the law), they might just try another (accusation of cheating). My reason, far from silly IMOHO, was to see if there is any knowledge on the forum of similar occurrences in AC. You see, I like to know the enemy and his methods, but would be just as happy to find out that "they don't do that" and that this guy was probably cheating after all. But you're entitled to your opinion, Shad.

 

[shadroch]

How would your friend know if the guy was cheating,unless he was in on it or there? As he is a poker player and the guy who was supposedly banned was a BJ player,was he there when the guy was banned?

When one hears a story that is so out of the ordinary,one has to question the story itself.I recently posted about being with a guy who won over $50,000 in a very short time. The casinos treated him like gold,because they wanted their money back.If they had enough evidence someone was cheating,they would have removed him in handcuffs.

 

[aslan]

Oh ye of little faith

How would your friend know if the guy was cheating,unless he was in on it or there? As he is a poker player and the guy who was supposedly banned was a BJ player,was he there when the guy was banned?

When one hears a story that is so out of the ordinary,one has to question the story itself.I recently posted about being with a guy who won over $50,000 in a very short time. The casinos treated him like gold,because they wanted their money back.If they had enough evidence someone was cheating,they would have removed him in handcuffs.

If my friend had been there, I don't know if he would have been able to detect cheating. I do know that he was there on one occasion where this BJ player was betting really big and winning. When I see him, I'll ask him if he was there when the BJ player was banned.

My story does not happen to play out like the one in your experience. So? Are you trying to infer something? The story is what it is and I stand behind it. BTW, was the guy in your story counting? If so, and if the casino knew it, that might have had a different outcome. So far, I haven't heard any stories of suspected counters being treated like gold.

However, I do know in Vegas that some places do try to put counting in the same category as cheating and they consider practitioners a low life form.

I don't know why I have to defend myself for a discussion thread on a public forum. I feel like the casino has detained me for possibly spreading bad PR about them. I assume, however, that you do not work for a casino.

PS -- There was a time (way back when) when AC did bar counters. I know a man, Bill "Weenie Beanie" Staton, who was barred from playing in any AC casinos. Bill passed away last year, but he was a rare breed of gambler, both a professional and a gentleman. Just might be that there's still a vestige of that same old feeling of loathing for counters lingering in today's AC casinos.

 

[KenSmith]

PS -- There was a time (way back when) when AC did bar counters. I know a man, Bill "Weenie Beanie" Staton, who was barred from playing in any AC casinos. Bill passed away last year, but he was a rare breed of gambler, both a professional and a gentleman.

Weenie Beanie was a famous pool player as well. Interesting to see that he made the transition to card counting. Sounds like a guy it would have been a pleasure to know.

 

[aslan]

Weenie Beanie was a famous pool player as well. Interesting to see that he made the transition to card counting. Sounds like a guy it would have been a pleasure to know.

You bet he was!!!

Before he died, he was inducted into the One Pocket Hall of Fame. He was also an accomplished poker player. I believe they named six-card low ball after him; at least, according to a book I once read on hustlers. Bill was a gambler's gambler; and he was known for applying that superior intellect of his to all of his gambling endeavors. Before he died he was retired to Myrtle Beach where he operated a BJ game at one of the local country clubs. If someone gathered together all the stories of his gambling career, it would make one heck of a book.

 

[shadroch]

Aslan,
I get the feeling you are relatively new to gambling and to Atlantic City.Yesterday you were asking about penetration in a 6-5 game.

Your story just is so far off the norm for AC. Why would Trump ban a guy who is betting $15,000 a hand when all they need to do is either tell him to flat bet or shuffle up at will on him.
If you stay in casinos long enough,you will hear all sorts of storries that seem quite strange,but can be neither verified or denied.Coming on a board and implying that a casino is doing illegal things to a person you don't know from Adam is accomplishing what,exactly? The people at Trump have been in the game a long long time. If they banned a person,you can be pretty sure they had a good reason,and it wasn't because he was counting. Do casinos ban people? All the time. My friend was barred from the Taj,but not for card counting. For being an a-hole to a craps crew and throwing a beer at a security guard when asked to leave.

 

[aslan]

Aslan,
I get the feeling you are relatively new to gambling and to Atlantic City.Yesterday you were asking about penetration in a 6-5 game.

Your story just is so far off the norm for AC. Why would Trump ban a guy who is betting $15,000 a hand when all they need to do is either tell him to flat bet or shuffle up at will on him.
If you stay in casinos long enough,you will hear all sorts of storries that seem quite strange,but can be neither verified or denied.Coming on a board and implying that a casino is doing illegal things to a person you don't know from Adam is accomplishing what,exactly? The people at Trump have been in the game a long long time. If they banned a person,you can be pretty sure they had a good reason,and it wasn't because he was counting. Do casinos ban people? All the time. My friend was barred from the Taj,but not for card counting. For being an a-hole to a craps crew and throwing a beer at a security guard when asked to leave.

Too bad I have only a few scant details. When I do find out more, I'll pass it on to you PM. My purpose was not to accuse the casino of doing anything illegal, but to find out if such things are commonplace (apparently not). It is probably not illegal for a casino to bar someone on the grounds of cheating, even without proof. I am not a lawyer, but I would imagine the burden is on the barred person to take it to court if they feel they were treated unfairly. It's true I am new to AC and to BJ. BJ and pocket billiards are products of my retirement not so long ago. Billiards was a passion of my youth; on the other hand, I never played BJ seriously until recently. I am not new to the world of professional gamblers. I grew up with it. I couldn't hack it full-time myself, so I worked for a living.

 

[shadroch]

While the burden would be on the barred player to take the casino to court,that would involve all of calling a lawyer and letting him loose on the casino.If he was barred and wasn't cheating.
Anyways,you see now that it isn't common,which was your concern.

 

[aslan]

I agree

While the burden would be on the barred player to take the casino to court,that would involve all of calling a lawyer and letting him loose on the casino.If he was barred and wasn't cheating.
Anyways,you see now that it isn't common,which was your concern.

Yes, to all of the above.

I am new to this milieu (casino BJ) and I am attempting to get a crash course via the Blackjack forums. There must be a thousand years of casino experience represented here.

 

[shadroch]

Several thousands.