Barring Question

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CanKen

Well-Known Member
I understand that casinos in LV can bar anyone because the casinos are considered private property.
Does anyone know the status of the Ontario charity casinos? Are they considered private property? Can they bar you, or back you off?
Since the BJ tables are all 8-deck with $100 max bet, do they even care if you count cards?
My BR allows me to spread 1-15 at low limit tables, but I'm hesitant to do it where I play regularly and the pit people know me by sight if not by name.
Thanks for any info.

CK
 
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Tom

Well-Known Member
I would think charity casinos are private property and can barr anyone,including ploppies. How's the conditions there? Do you see players getting hawked at constantly, or is there a loose atmosphere? Since a call for a max bet against and 8 deck shoe is an infrequent occurrance(according to my strategy) I often find myself making far too many minimum waiting bets of only 1-3 units with not even a look. The TC's slowly rise or drop,then finally after an hour or so I may have an opportunity to put out my max bet. It's an infrequent occurence that I must take advantage of. It's unlikely the pit's going to hassle with hawking, running back tapes,tracking,etc. and all this just because you're making infrequent $75 bets. Many times during busy hours, they may not even noticed(or care?)you just made a 15 unit bet.

If you really want to gaff em, move around!#@$%

Tom
 
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Rob McGarvey

Well-Known Member
They are Gov't property run by the Ontario Lottery Gaming Commission. I have spread from $5 to $100 at Brantford and Scugog and they give you serious heat, but never been barred. Had the shoe cut in half, stuff like that, which makes me laugh because often times the cards I want to play into are not cut out of the game, which pisses them even more. I know of someone that got kicked out of Rama recently. These is a case in Montreal that was won by the player, but do not know of any cases in Ontario.

You play Niagara, Rama, Scugog or Brantford? Hope to catch up with you sometime and get those chips flying.

Rob
 
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Rob McGarvey

Well-Known Member
It is worse there than 8deckville Ontario is, we stand on all 17, DOA, DAS. You either learn new "tricks," fogetaboutit, or find your advantage elseware.
 
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CanKen

Well-Known Member
Tom:
As you may know, Ontario has five small charity casinos, three large commercial casinos and Great Blue Heron casino which is also small and classed as a charity casino but is a hybrid in terms of ownership and operation. You can find out more at "www.olgc.ca".
My local casino is probably typical of the charity casinos, and conditions aren't great, but it's only five minutes away so I play 3 times a week for an hour or so for practice and entertainment. Over the last couple of years I've averaged about my BJRM expectation,which is a little better than minimum wage.
I doubt anyone can make much $$ playing 8 decks with a max bet of $100. Penetration depends a lot on the dealer, from 65-80%, but averaging about 75%, and the rules are the usual S17, DOA2, DAS to 4 hands.
The pit seems fairly loose, mostly friendly dealers and supervisors, although sometimes I feel I am being watched when I flat bet the min for a couple of shoes then half way through a shoe work up to 12 or 15 units or 2x10 units.
You're right; it takes patience to play 8 decks. Max bet counts aren't common, maybe 10% of hands played, and if you don't take full advantage of them you are wasting your time.
It's hard to move around in a small casino with busy tables. I just try to find one with low min so I can get a spread, good pen, fast dealer and auto-shuffler. Then I take a washroom or telephone lammer if the count goes below -1.
I still don't know what the policy is regarding suspected AP's in these places, or even if they have one, and if they do, what the legalities are. I'll keep trying to find out.
Hope this answers your questions.

CK
 
7

7 x 3

New Member
Having been barred from Rama (we believe you are a skilled player), I say, be careful. I played the VIP Room for a long time. The night it happened I was only spreading black 1 to 4. Up a few thousand. Next trip tp Windsor - barred (management decision). Same thing at Niagra, so they do share info.
I complained to the Ontario Gov't. Response was "Casino's are entrusted to protect the assets of the Province..."
Windsor is the most paranoid.
'Charity' places don't seem to care. With all the horrible players playing the $100 max every hand, why would they?
 
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Tom

Well-Known Member
I think you're worrying too much about legalities and policies,it's not like you're going to beat up and thrown in jail(unless you throw first punch!). If they dont like your action they'll probably just simply tell the dealer to start cutting back on pen or half-shoe you. Dont believe all the stories you here on the internet about card counters getting dragged and beat up all the way to the backroom with chains wraped around their neck. Most these guys are probably casino trolls,drunks,real cheaters,etc. Since this casino is usually busy you can mix in with the crowd more. A typical dealer or pit boss probably thinks of me as some kind of stupid ploppy that bets with the flow. If you ever truly feel you're being hawked simply cit back on bet spread a little and only raise your bet when you win and lower it a little when you lose. Typical ploppy fashion,..hee,hee.

Good luck
Tom
 
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CanKen

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info. I think you are right about the difference in attitude between the three big commercial casinos, which are privately operated, and the small charity casinos. At one of them a few weeks ago I saw a guy,(apparently he had requested a $50 min sign so he could play alone), flat betting the $100 max on all seven spots every round. With players like that, why would they worry about me?
 
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CanKen

Well-Known Member
Yeh, you're right. I'll just try to look like a nice, conservative, old guy who gets bored and plunges once in a while towards the end of a shoe.
 
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CanKen

Well-Known Member
Hi Rob:
I'm a bit slow responding; hope you find this. I looked up some info at "olgc.com". Seems that all the casinos are owned by OLGC, but the three big ones are privately operated, whatever that means. Also, I understand that at Great Blue Heron, OLGC operates the slots part but the local First Nations people run the table games. Maybe that's why their BJ is a little different from the other charity casinos. I've only been there once, but my wife and I both liked it.
We get to Brantford and Niagara a couple times a year but won't for a while now because of some medical problems.
I'd like to meet you some time, but afraid I'm not in your class when it comes to skill, knowledge, experience etc.
Thanks for the response.

CK
 
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Rob McGarvey

Well-Known Member
Yes it would be a pleasure to meet you too. I don't let things get to my head about skill etc, so please don't feel that way. I'm just another card player to the guys on this side of the table. What I am to the other side of the table is another matter. ;> I live in Brampton now. You close??
 
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CanKen

Well-Known Member
Not close - Sarnia. As I mentioned above, we won't be travelling much for a while, maybe later in the year.

CK
 
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Rob McGarvey

Well-Known Member
With the price of gas and road conditions, I don't blame ya! I'd rather play on my PC. I do have my eye on a 2000 Cougar, black on black leather, loaded, coming off a lease. Those white letters across the back of it should stand out nicely. And the painting on the hood? My two favorite cards......and I don't mean Arnold S and DV Cellini. ;>
 
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