Beginner Questions

[Lowrider]

All,

Been lurking here for a few weeks...had a nice little score for my level a few weeks ago playing BS at the $50 minimum tables in the Midwest at a local store. Made $3K playing BS only so I was a BS PLOPPY without a real good grasp on BS quite frankly. I was happy to win but knew it was basically luck with a half-assed BS and bet progression system application.

Got interested in enhancing my gMe and came across this site....just got back from VEGASand applied High-Lo effectively there playing basically $10-$15 min tables...I didn't count perfectly but was confident that my count at the end of each shoe was +/- 2 of the actual running count. I made about $600 at the tables for the trip but I have a tremendous amount of leaks in my game. Especially with adhering to BS strictly.

Help with answers to the following would be really cool...

1. I was spreading either 1-15 OR else 1 unit per 1 point of the True Count (ie...2 units for tc2...5 units for tc5..and soon)..this is while using high low. Are these counts effective? Other info...6 to 8 decks...H17...varying pen of like 70 to 80..$10 min avg

2. I played waaay above my STD min at a local store upon my return from Vegas and got destroyed...I had no choice...lowest table was $25...lost 70 units...really stupid...H17...3.5 to 4 out of 6 deck shoe pen...no surrender...and made 3 huge BS MISTAKES as I was using S17 generic BS ...I know I screwed up...still have about $2k roll...will only play $10 min from now or else go home....comment?

3. I came home after getting raped and made several purchases any comment or additions you could recommend?:
Professional Blackjack
Theory of BJ
BJ BS Strategy cards for all games by Ken Smith
Advantage play for the casino executive

4. I am not ready and know I have to have THE RIGHT BS FOR THE GAME IM PLAYING....my counting has gotten better and I'm near perfect now thru 8 deck shoes...but my BS HAS LEAKS

5. any other advice

THANKS

 

[tezzadiver]

All,

Been lurking here for a few weeks...had a nice little score for my level a few weeks ago playing BS at the $50 minimum tables in the Midwest at a local store. Made $3K playing BS only so I was a BS PLOPPY without a real good grasp on BS quite frankly. I was happy to win but knew it was basically luck with a half-assed BS and bet progression system application.

Got interested in enhancing my gMe and came across this site....just got back from VEGASand applied High-Lo effectively there playing basically $10-$15 min tables...I didn't count perfectly but was confident that my count at the end of each shoe was +/- 2 of the actual running count. I made about $600 at the tables for the trip but I have a tremendous amount of leaks in my game. Especially with adhering to BS strictly.

Help with answers to the following would be really cool...

1. I was spreading either 1-15 OR else 1 unit per 1 point of the True Count (ie...2 units for tc2...5 units for tc5..and soon)..this is while using high low. Are these counts effective? Other info...6 to 8 decks...H17...varying pen of like 70 to 80..$10 min avg

2. I played waaay above my STD min at a local store upon my return from Vegas and got destroyed...I had no choice...lowest table was $25...lost 70 units...really stupid...H17...3.5 to 4 out of 6 deck shoe pen...no surrender...and made 3 huge BS MISTAKES as I was using S17 generic BS ...I know I screwed up...still have about $2k roll...will only play $10 min from now or else go home....comment?

3. I came home after getting raped and made several purchases any comment or additions you could recommend?:
Professional Blackjack
Theory of BJ
BJ BS Strategy cards for all games by Ken Smith
Advantage play for the casino executive

4. I am not ready and know I have to have THE RIGHT BS FOR THE GAME IM PLAYING....my counting has gotten better and I'm near perfect now thru 8 deck shoes...but my BS HAS LEAKS

5. any other advice

THANKS

Welcome to the forum.
Sounds like you have answered your own question really- You need to get your basic strategy 100%.

You were lucky to have hit a positive fluctuation with your you first 1st `sortee` playing BS. But already you are overbetting your bankroll to a degree that with a few negative fluctuations you could be wiped out.

Instead of going out half-cocked (I understand you are eager to make money)
1. Get your basic strategy 100%
2. Get to grips with bankroll management (there are plenty of threads here if you use the search function.)
3. Invest in multiple decks of cards, a shoe, and practice counting at home while becoming more confident in your skills.
4. Read, Study and read more until you understand what is going to be the most suitable bet ramp for you and the game you play.
5. When you are ready to play. Key points to consider...

a. Game selection- It`s pointless playing crap games with bad penetration as a counter. You will not make money.
b. Understand bankroll management, I would recommend as a recreational player you have enough for at least 50 max bets, and much more than that as a full time pro.
c. Know when to leave a game. If all is going south, Don`t stay and prolong your loss and misery.
d. Don`t play games you cannot afford. Yes the game may be juicy, but a bad run of cards will wipe you out.

 

[Lowrider]

Penetration Playable Threshold

6 decks, DAS, NO SUR, H17... what pen is acceptable here...I was seeing routine 3.5 or 4 decks being played before cut card out of 6 at my local store. Is that unplayable

 

[Gamblor]

6 decks, DAS, NO SUR, H17... what pen is acceptable here...I was seeing routine 3.5 or 4 decks being played before cut card out of 6 at my local store. Is that unplayable

Sorry, I just puked a little in my mouth.

 

[zengrifter]

3. I came home after getting raped and made several purchases any comment or additions you could recommend?:
Professional Blackjack
Theory of BJ
BJ BS Strategy cards for all games by Ken Smith
Advantage play for the casino executive

4. I am not ready and know I have to have THE RIGHT BS FOR THE GAME IM PLAYING....my counting has gotten better and I'm near perfect now thru 8 deck shoes...but my BS HAS LEAKS

Use ProBJ for complete indices and then round them per ZGI page 4-5 (link below)
BS leaks are of negligible detrement if you are counting. zg

 

[zengrifter]

...what pen is acceptable here...I was seeing routine 3.5 or 4 decks being played before cut card out of 6 at my local store. Is that unplayable

Yes, it IS unplayable, even if only playing +EV counts. What city is this? zg

 

[Sucker]

BS leaks are of negligible detriment if you are counting. zg

BS leaks are of negligible detriment if you are counting.
FYP (You didn't say it LOUD enough)

 

[zengrifter]

BS leaks are of negligible detriment if you are counting.
FYP (You didn't say it LOUD enough)

Ps - CLARIFICATION: "Leaks" meaning wrong #decks.
Leaks due to incomplete memorization of BS or due to DAS vs nonDAS versions may exact penalties that are NOT negligible. zg

 

[Canceler]

After all those years of "Do you know basic strategy?"...

Ps - CLARIFICATION: "Leaks" meaning wrong #decks.
Leaks due to incomplete memorization of BS or due to DAS vs nonDAS versions may exact penalties that are NOT negligible. zg

Thank you for that clarification. I was beginning to think I had crossed over into the Twilight Zone.

 

[Gamblor]

Thank you for that clarification. I was beginning to think I had crossed over into the Twilight Zone.

It is negligible if you get 12 v 4 and 5, 12 v 2, 16 v 10, surrender 15 v 10, etc., wrong all the time But of course, these aren't the decisions those who try learn BS get wrong.

 

[Lowrider]

Ramp

Thanks for the advice...I'm gonna keep the exact location of my store to myself if u don't mind.....


Regarding my ramping...if I am using HIGH LO with a 6 deck shoe and a 1-15 spread can I get some ideas on how you'd ramp up at which TCs?

 

[Lowrider]

Ramping help...

Can someone please chime in on proper ramping for the following conditions:

$10 min 6 decks 70% pen DAS DA2 NO SUR NO RSA

USING HIGH LOW

I think I under bet at TCs 1, 2, 3

I am thinking a spread of 1 to 15 but maybe I didn't go up fast enough...


What would you do under these conditions?

 

[FLASH1296]

LowRider,

You failed to include a most important factor H17 / S17 ?

Also — how many Basic Strategy Departure Indices are you using ?

 

[Lowrider]

Sorry, the games of BJ I have access to are all H17...I am using the correct BS for the game but have not incorporated indices to date....want to get BS application and count down perfectly prior to moving into indices

 

[jack.jackson]

I know you said you had about 2K left. But how you bet your money(after rules)should primarily be determined by how much "bank" you got and what risk your willing to take. I guess wonging should be considered too.

 

[Lowrider]

Proper Ramp & Spread

Can I get some thoughts on this proposed ramp & spread please?:

BK = 2K

Not concerned at all about RoR

$10 min bet DAS DA2 NORSA NOSUR H17 70%PEN WONG OUT AT TC -2

PLAYING HIGH-LO AND IDEAL BS BUT NO INDICES YET

How about this: $10 units
TC -2 = Wong out
TC -2 to TC 1.5 = 1 unit
TC 1.5 to 2 = 2 units
TC 2 = 4 units
TC 3 = 8 units
TC 4 = 15 units
TC 5 = 2x10 units or 15 units cap if heat

 

[Lowrider]

Or is this a better ramp...

...
How about this: $10 units
TC -2 = Wong out
TC 2 = 5 units
TC 3 = 10 units
TC 4 = 15 units
TC 5 = 2x10 units or 15 units cap if heat

This would be easier to apply but is the ramp too steep

 

[Gamblor]

Can I get some thoughts on this proposed ramp & spread please?:

BK = 2K

Not concerned at all about RoR

$10 min bet DAS DA2 NORSA NOSUR H17 70%PEN WONG OUT AT TC -2

PLAYING HIGH-LO AND IDEAL BS BUT NO INDICES YET

How about this: $10 units
TC -2 = Wong out
TC -2 to TC 1.5 = 1 unit
TC 1.5 to 2 = 2 units
TC 2 = 4 units
TC 3 = 8 units
TC 4 = 15 units
TC 5 = 2x10 units or 15 units cap if heat

Excellent plan of attack if you want to get a tap on the shoulder.

If you truly don't care about RoR, I would suggest :

TC < 1.5 = 1 unit
TC > 1.5 = Table Max

The EV on this ramp is sky high!

 

[FLASH1296]

H17 ... 70% Pen'

Dreadful conditions.

I wouldn't play this gave with Y O U R money !

:whip:

 

[Friendo]

H17 ... 70% Pen'

Dreadful conditions.

Gruesome. No resplitting of aces is the final insult here.

Wonging at -1, one hand heads-up with the dealer, 70% penetration, using High-Low with sweet sixteen indices gives a SCORE of 4.00, which translates to an N0 of 250,000. That's 2500 hours at 100 hands per hour. :cry:

With RSA, N0 is around 150,000. But we don't enjoy that condition here.

I will play H17 DAS RSA games locallly, but only if I can get heads-up play with 75% penetration, or other players and a one-deck cut.

Your ramp looks okay. Maybe a bit much of a jump from 3 to 4, but not all out of proportion.

If you're going to play these conditions, try to find hours where you can get heads-up action with a smooth dealers, and practice your butt off so you can play over 180 hands per hour smoothly, with at least the sweet sixteen indices.