Betting on Neutral Counts

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NorCalBJ

Member
I've heard from so many people that you bet two units on an even count, one on a negative count, and then more on positive counts. My question is this: why bet more on an even count than on a negative count? Yes, even is better than negative, but the house has the advantage on even counts. It is small, less than one half percent if you play perfect BS, but it is still a small disadvantage.
It seems like you would always bet less on even and negative counts, and only raise the bet on positive counts.
I am fairly new to card counting. I live near an Indian Casino (good rules, single deck) in Northern California and play there when I can. I am a college student with limited funds so I play with 5 dollar units. I have had 28 sessions since the first of the year. I have won 15 and lost 13 times. My wonder is, would I have even better success if I lower my even count bets?
Any advice would be great.
 
L

learning to count

Well-Known Member
"I've heard from so many people that you bet two units on an even count, one on a negative count, and then more on positive counts. My question is this: why bet more on an even count than on a negative count? Yes, even is better than negative, but the house has the advantage on even counts. It is small, less than one half percent if you play perfect BS, but it is still a small disadvantage."

First of all there are two basic ways of playing. One is "PLAY ALL which means you will enter at the beggining of the shoe and play to the end. When you PLAY ALL the basic strategy is to bet one unit at negative and nuetral counts. You raise your bet at a true count of +1. The bet is raised at higher true counts. Your are correct that the casino still has the advantage at 0. Who ever told you raise your bet at nuetral counts is living on the negative edge. Play all requires a good size bankroll even for red chip.

The second way is to WONG". This means you will enter at a plus one and play as long as you have the advantage. Once the TC dips below plus one you leave. Other variations are to leave when the tc is -1 or to start at the beginning of the shoe and leaving (WONG OUT) at a negative one or when the advantage dips below plus one. Your bet amount when wonging should be gauged by your bankroll and what rate of ruin you want to play at. There are several books listed in the reading list on the left of your screen. These books explain the balance of your bets to the count, bankroll, ROR,and expected value or win rate.

"It seems like you would always bet less on even and negative counts, and only raise the bet on positive counts. I am fairly new to card counting. I live near an Indian Casino (good rules, single deck) in Northern California and play there when I can. I am a college student with limited funds so I play with 5 dollar units. I have had 28 sessions since the first of the year. I have won 15 and lost 13 times. My wonder is, would I have even better success if I lower my even count bets?
Any advice would be great."

All I can say is read read read, meorize memorize memorize, practice practice practice, ask questions ask questions ask questions. In multiple deck games dont play at a TC of less than +1. For single deck bet 1 unit at negative counts and nuetral. Even better if the deck is negative at the first round go to the bathroom. This is my humble and novice oppinion. LTC
 
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The Mayor

Well-Known Member
Optimal betting

Optimal betting does not have one betting 2 units at a neutral count. However, bet spread and getting away with it is more important.

I spread 16-1 just recently at a single deck game in Downtown Vegas. This is not possible normally, but I got away with it just fine. How?

2 hands of 2 units off the top.

Count goes negative, 1 hand of 1 unit.

Count goes very positive, 2 hands of 8 units.

It looks like a simple 4-1 spread...

There is a lot to be gained by not betting min at neutral bets.

--Mayor
 
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The Mayor

Well-Known Member
Nor Cal single deck

You said you think this is good single deck -- I am not aware of ANY good single deck offered in California --

what are the rules?
what is the penetration (how many rounds/cards are dealt between shuffles)?

I have a feeling you are either playing Super Fun 21 or else a game with lousy penetration, in either case, not worth it.

--Mayor
 
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Henry Tamburin

Member
Re: Optimal betting

I agree with the Mayor. In the old days I never use to bet more than 1 unit on neutral counts. But in the single and even two deck Vegas games nowadays I do like the Mayor suggested - bet two hands or 2 units after the shuffle then bet up or down depending upon where the count goes (allows me to get a bigger bet spread). It costs you a little in EV but it is worth it for longetivity at the tables.

Regards,
Henry Tamburin
www.bjinsider.com

Regards,
 
N

NorCalBJ

Member
Re: Nor Cal single deck

It is not super fun. It is single deck, double on any 2, bj pays 3-2, split anything, no double after split. Seems to be no heat. Most pit bosses are young people. It is full of ploppies most of the time. They bus people in from the bay area to lose their welfare check. Middle of the night until about 10 am on weekdays is slow. The last three times I have gone early in the morning I have gotten heads up play. Penetration is usually around 60%. When I go early in the mornings and play heads up I get very good penetration.
Tables are $5-200. There is usally a $25-200 table open. It is ideal for someone with a nice roll because everybody there packs the $5 table and leaves the $25-200 open for heads up or two on one play.
 
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The Mayor

Well-Known Member
Re: Nor Cal single deck

OK, tear it up.

A 4-1 spread is more than adequate. $5 when TC <=1, then up the ladder ... BET = $5xTC ... note that this is still not an optimal spread. If you start getting some heat, use some cover bets (bet large off the top, small when the count shoots up) until they go away.

--Mayor
 
R

Running Count

Well-Known Member
Re: Nor Cal single deck

You won't be more specific about where this is? I live in the Bay Area, and I've NEVER heard of single deck with those rules closer than Reno in any discussion on any blackjack site, until now.

Not that you're wrong -- I'm just skeptical until I hear confirmation from another source.
 
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NorCalBJ

Member
Re: Nor Cal single deck

Thanks for the advice, Mayor.
I read "Golden Gate" last night and enjoyed it. I am actually writing a novel right now. When I finish it and sell it, if I ever do, my next one is going to be about a male/female counting team.
 
Sonny

Sonny

Well-Known Member
Re: Man+Woman=Team!

>...my next one is going to be about a male/female counting team.

Sounds great! There's PLENTY of great material there. My wife and I have played as a team quite a few times. It's a great way to increase your EV, and it is MUCH more fun that counting alone. Plus it keeps her away from the stores while I'm at the tables!

-Sonny-
 
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