Beyond Counting on eBay - ridiculous!

[Sonny]

The bids are up to $810 with only 10 hours left in the auction!

(Dead link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Beyond-Counting-by-James-Grosjean_W0QQitemZ180180515533QQihZ008QQcategoryZ378QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

This is the highest I've ever seen the book sell for. Ridiculous.

-Sonny-

 

[SystemsTrader]

Sonny do you own a copy?

 

[BJinNJ]

It's a 'Brand New' copy...

so it might be more desirable to some.

BJinNJ

 

[21forme]

Is the book THAT good?

I presume it's out of print. Is another edition due out?

 

[moo321]

Is the book THAT good?

I presume it's out of print. Is another edition due out?

It's probably worth $800 if you're a full time player with a large bankroll. It is out of print, and there was another edition planned, but it looks like it's been tabled.

 

[nightspirit]

Since there is always a high demand for this book... there is temporary a new auction at ebay. 7 hours to go.

(Dead link: http://cgi.ebay.com/Beyond-Counting-by-James-Grosjean_W0QQitemZ150198049235QQihZ005QQcategoryZ378QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting)

 

[21forme]

Borrowed it from a friend of mine and I am in the process of reading it right now. I'm about half-way through the BJ section, and I haven't found anything earth-shattering in it. I may have to read it again to figure out if I missed something. There's a large section on hole carding, which doesn't do me any good here in the land of 6 and 8D shoes.

 

[RJT]

Borrowed it from a friend of mine and I am in the process of reading it right now. I'm about half-way through the BJ section, and I haven't found anything earth-shattering in it. I may have to read it again to figure out if I missed something. There's a large section on hole carding, which doesn't do me any good here in the land of 6 and 8D shoes.

If you've not found anything, you are not looking in the right places. In the first read i found half a dozen plays that could give me a substantial advantage that i hadn't noticed or wasn't sure of the correct strategy for before.

RJT.

 

[21forme]

If you've not found anything, you are not looking in the right places. In the first read i found half a dozen plays that could give me a substantial advantage that i hadn't noticed or wasn't sure of the correct strategy for before.

RJT.

Either that or I already know them
or I haven't gotten to them yet.
Is it fair to say I can skip the hole card section since there are no pitch games where I play?

 

[RJT]

Either that or I already know them
or I haven't gotten to them yet.
Is it fair to say I can skip the hole card section since there are no pitch games where I play?

Beyond Counting's about more than Blackjack - while the perspective on counting and blackjack is not one that you'll find elsewhere, showing different priorities than other litrature - the real value is in the fact that JG shows that pretty much any game is beatable in the right circumstances.
The other thing i'd like to point out is that none of the content of that book should be discussed online at all. Much of what is discussed in that book is valid and valuable even today 7 years after it was released. It wouldn't take much to end that.

RJT.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

If you've not found anything, you are not looking in the right places. In the first read i found half a dozen plays that could give me a substantial advantage that i hadn't noticed or wasn't sure of the correct strategy for before.

RJT.

I'm sure it's worth reading, but I doubt it's worth $810. Simply because opportunities change so quickly and there are many in that book that no longer exist, and many that now exist that aren't in the book.

But it's probably great for learning theory that can be adapted to current situations. There's really no substitute for being able to do your own homework.

 

[RJT]

I'm sure it's worth reading, but I doubt it's worth $810. Simply because opportunities change so quickly and there are many in that book that no longer exist, and many that now exist that aren't in the book.

But it's probably great for learning theory that can be adapted to current situations. There's really no substitute for being able to do your own homework.

Well if you pay $810 for it, you are not much of an AP anyway - you can get it for far less.
Most general opportunities are always there for those that know what to look for. Yes warps and tells have disappeared alongside some others due to proceedural changes, but many others will be there for years to come for those who know how to exploit them. Often they are more work than most are prepared to put in.

RJT.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

... Yes warps and tells have disappeared alongside some others due to proceedural changes...

Dude, you really have to get out to Nevada sometime!

There are still plenty of games that involve one dealer, one player, and one deck of cards, and still use a manual peek. There are tells, and with some dealers you can simply ask them what their hole card is, and they'll start to vocalize it before they catch themselves. It's really cool, like Obi-Wan Kenobi using The Force to manipulate people. (Sorry for the ancient movie reference.)

 

[moo321]

Has anyone here ever read beyond counting? Or, by some miracle, does someone actually have it?

 

[RJT]

Has anyone here ever read beyond counting? Or, by some miracle, does someone actually have it?

I own it.
Good to hear that Warps and Tells are still alive in that limited geographical area, but there are easier and more efficient ways of gaining the same information and there are more than enough opportunities to explore outside Nevada and indeed outside of the US to keep me busy for the moment - although i do confess i would like to take a trip to LV at some point or another, it's not top of my priority list right now.
Anyway, asking the dealer what the hole card is - that'll draw unwanted attention quickly enough.

RJT.

 

[21forme]

Has anyone here ever read beyond counting? Or, by some miracle, does someone actually have it?

I am reading it now, for the second time (to hopefully pick up a few pearls I missed first time through.) I borrowed it from a friend of mine. He may offer it on Ebay, now that I told him what these are going for. A +EV book purchase, for sure!

 

[avs21]

I own it.
Good to hear that Warps and Tells are still alive in that limited geographical area, but there are easier and more efficient ways of gaining the same information and there are more than enough opportunities to explore outside Nevada and indeed outside of the US to keep me busy for the moment - although i do confess i would like to take a trip to LV at some point or another, it's not top of my priority list right now.
Anyway, asking the dealer what the hole card is - that'll draw unwanted attention quickly enough.

RJT.

You can find warped cards outside of Nevada. The most obvious warped cards I have ever come across was outside of Nevada.

 

[Brock Windsor]

Borrowed it from a friend of mine and I am in the process of reading it right now. I'm about half-way through the BJ section, and I haven't found anything earth-shattering in it. I may have to read it again to figure out if I missed something. There's a large section on hole carding, which doesn't do me any good here in the land of 6 and 8D shoes.

The land of 6 and 8D shoes still serves plenty of hole cards for those with the patience to hunt down the right dealers. Even for those few times a dealer exposes a card in error

 

[RJT]

You can find warped cards outside of Nevada. The most obvious warped cards I have ever come across was outside of Nevada.

Truth told, the US isn't my place of buisness for the most part, so i don't worry too much about what you can and can't do there. Where i play, hole cards in blackjack are non-existent, so warps and tells are a completely dead game. Don't think there was ever any life in them, so you have to find other ways of increasing your advantage.

RJT.