Bill Zender on KLAV Thurs. 7:00 PM
- Thread starter laserjet
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Available online at http://tunein.com/radio/KLAV-1230-s33661/
Lonesome Gambler
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link. I'll listen to this tomorrow, but is there anything new? Zender usually covers the same stuff in his interviews, but there's an occasional nugget here and there.
Pretty much same old stuff. They did talk a bit about promos and loss rebates. One interesting tidbit was Zender said he believed Mohegan Sun lost about 300K in their triple down promo. Surprised me a bit as I know quite a few APs who went and only one won anything. But it would only take one team flat betting purple to hurt them...
kewljason
Well-Known Member
Really? I remember in the days after the promotion, on various boards, everyone crowing about how well they did. I was beginning to think I was the only one that didn't cash in big that day. :sad: I got down big very early, losing all my triples early on and clawed my way back fairly close to even.21forme said:
Zender really seems like an ok guy. Have never met him, just heard various interviews so maybe that is just the public front he puts forward. He almost always says how he found it troublesome when griffin made no destinction between AP's and cheats, and almost always comments that casinos should not be spending any time or effort worrying about solo type counters. This was the first time I heard him take a shot at Beverly. You got the feeling he really dislikes her.
There was one comment, one of the hosts, I think Frank, made about Matchplay coupons. Did you pick up on that 21? He said something to the effect that there should be no homeless people in Vegas, because players can make $50 a day from matchplays alone. I am wondering if he is speaking of years ago when they used to hand out matchplay coupons the strip, or if there is some source of MP's that I am not familiar with.
I am always looking for new sources of matchplays.
Solo player
Well-Known Member
Zender
It was a good interview. But a lot of what he said did seem dated since he already had the info in his books. I missed the the part about the homeless people and match plays in Vegas. (my wife was yapping in my ear at the time) By the way his books are a good read.
Good cards, Solo
It was a good interview. But a lot of what he said did seem dated since he already had the info in his books. I missed the the part about the homeless people and match plays in Vegas. (my wife was yapping in my ear at the time) By the way his books are a good read.
Good cards, Solo
CasinoExaminer
Banned
21forme said:
I expect that people are going to crow a lot more about wins than losses... and they'd probably exaggerate as well.kewljason said:
I saw many people there who were severely under-bankrolled for the promo. The variance due to triple-down increased a great deal, and (as you experienced) a hefty bankroll is mandatory. Plenty of folks didn't come prepared, bet purple, and tapped out during a typical bad run.
The Chaperone
Well-Known Member
Mohegan ran better than average on that promo but they still got crushed pretty good. 800k is the number I heard that they lost. My estimate based on the number of APs there and the promo running for 24 hours was that they would lose about a million. Maybe some APs tapped out and some others didn't iron man the whole 24 hours which explains why they didn't lose so much. Or it could just be the rather substantial variance.
Anyways, my groups lost about 25-30k and we were over 100k below EV. Would have been nice to be on the other side of the bell curve for that one lol. We did have some trip bankroll issues at our lower points as we didn't really think it would last 24 hours so we didn't fly across the country with a quarter mill cash. We were able to keep playing but had to pass cash/chips around quite a bit when we were at our lower point. I also know of some other groups who lost, but like us, they didn't lose that huge, and I know one guy who won pretty big. Altogether I'd say the 20 or so APs that I know well enough to know their results broke even, but there were over 100 APs there altogether and I'm sure some of them got lucky. I think there's probably a couple groups who won well into six figures and just kep quiet about it (that's what I would have done too if I won huge). In fact, there could easily have been some solo players who won over 100k.
Lastly, the triple down does make it more volatile, but the bigger factor was that you were betting max almost 100% of the time (assuming you were well funded). This always seems to catch run of the mill card counters off guard as they are only used to betting max about 10% or the time. When you are flat betting max, you will go on some crazy wining and losing streaks. This effect is somewhat in play at very good count games, such as single deck dealt to the bottom where you have your max bet out maybe 40% of the time or 4 times as often as the typical shoe game.
Anyways, my groups lost about 25-30k and we were over 100k below EV. Would have been nice to be on the other side of the bell curve for that one lol. We did have some trip bankroll issues at our lower points as we didn't really think it would last 24 hours so we didn't fly across the country with a quarter mill cash. We were able to keep playing but had to pass cash/chips around quite a bit when we were at our lower point. I also know of some other groups who lost, but like us, they didn't lose that huge, and I know one guy who won pretty big. Altogether I'd say the 20 or so APs that I know well enough to know their results broke even, but there were over 100 APs there altogether and I'm sure some of them got lucky. I think there's probably a couple groups who won well into six figures and just kep quiet about it (that's what I would have done too if I won huge). In fact, there could easily have been some solo players who won over 100k.
Lastly, the triple down does make it more volatile, but the bigger factor was that you were betting max almost 100% of the time (assuming you were well funded). This always seems to catch run of the mill card counters off guard as they are only used to betting max about 10% or the time. When you are flat betting max, you will go on some crazy wining and losing streaks. This effect is somewhat in play at very good count games, such as single deck dealt to the bottom where you have your max bet out maybe 40% of the time or 4 times as often as the typical shoe game.
I heard the comment. Either their info is dated or machine players get different offers than we do. Don't forget these 2 guys are VP players, not BJ players. One plays almost exclusively progressives, using a team approach to monopolize a bank of machines once the jackpot becomes +EV.kewljason said:There was one comment, one of the hosts, I think Frank, made about Matchplay coupons. Did you pick up on that 21? He said something to the effect that there should be no homeless people in Vegas, because players can make $50 a day from matchplays alone. I am wondering if he is speaking of years ago when they used to hand out matchplay coupons the strip, or if there is some source of MP's that I am not familiar with.
That would be Frank Kneeland -- he once ran/managed one of the largest VP Pro Teams in LV. He paid his team members a flat hourly wage + various bonuses for who hit the Royal, etc. He, along w/ most other Pro Teams had to shut down their operation due to the IRS changing the procedure as to how to claim the W2G form for a Royal over $1200. Most pro VP players in LV went solo or partners after this occurrence.21forme said:
:cool2: