BJ is a dangerous and deceptive game

[johntks]

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Firstly, Basic Stategy says the house advantage is only about .5%. The lowest of all the casino table games. Many people says this is the best game to play amongst all the casino tables games. Wrong!
This is only the theoretical house advantage. Other table games like baccarat, the house advantage is about 1.25% and roulette about 5% respectively. Whichever way you play you only lose 1.25% or 5% respectively. With BJ one can lose much more than these percentages depending on how you play. I mean I have seen players throwing their money at the casinos on the BJ tables. I have seen players double 16 against the 10, split Ace's against the dealers Ace in the ENHC game, etc, etc. I can only guess that the house advantage there is way above 10%.
The casinos are making tons of money from bad BJ players.

 

[LeonShuffle]

I'm sorry but what exactly is your point? OF COURSE the house advantage for blackjack will go up if you play your hands incorrectly. So you're saying you'd rather play roulette where you'll always be at a 5% disadvantage (double 0) no matter what you do, than blackjack where it's less than half of 1 percent if played correctly?

 

[johntks]

LeonShuffle

You have replied to this thread in a flash and I did not get a chance to edit my posting. My point is , Players should be adviced to play BJ only if they are conversant with BS.

 

[LeonShuffle]

And gamblers should be advised to bet on football, only if they know who's playing.

 

[newyorkbear]

And gamblers should be advised to bet on football, only if they know who's playing.

Now you tell me! I'm still trying to figre out who played the Panthers first roundof the playoffs. Dam sure wasn't my Giants.

 

[MuddyTaxi]

This is silly. Most gamblers gamble as a means of entertainment, not a business investment.

 

[tribute]

A player once told me, "I'm not here at the table to make money." I responded, "Great. Since you're just throwing your money at the casino, why not just give me some." (There was silence)

 

[flytime]

It seems that every gamblers want win money when they gamble, never mind what they say:laugh:

 

[Mikeaber]

A player once told me, "I'm not here at the table to make money." I responded, "Great. Since you're just throwing your money at the casino, why not just give me some." (There was silence)

Oh could I ever nail you with a comeback to that one Tribute....but I will not <LOL>

Seriously, I can see validity in that statement (not there to make money) if playing at a low minimum table where the rules are marginal. Maybe one shouldn't be playing at such a table...unless the entertainment value (questionable value granted) was such that grinding out flat bets of $3 and taking loss as the price of that entertainment. I'm talking about free beer and maybe a comp'd meal making up for the .65% expected loss.

 

[johntks]

Mikeaber

If your expected loss is just .65% it make sense to play BJ anywhere, anytime. If you are looking for free beer and comped meals have you considered paying for this directly. It would be cheaper than the casino comp. Enterainment value there is undoubtedly, and this varies from person to person. What more can one say.
But this thread is about throwing money at the casino and the sky high house advantage in BJ.

 

[Mikeaber]

If your expected loss is just .65% it make sense to play BJ anywhere, anytime. If you are looking for free beer and comped meals have you considered paying for this directly. It would be cheaper than the casino comp. Enterainment value there is undoubtedly, and this varies from person to person. What more can one say.
But this thread is about throwing money at the casino and the sky high house advantage in BJ.

Well, pretty much anywhere (expecially on Fremont, or Kansas City or any of the Kansas casinos...but NOT in Oklahoma! Note no free drinks in KS, MO and OK) you can play at a .65% table or better as long as you do not sit at a 6:5 BJ table. When playing at the $3 and $5 level, about all you are going to get in comps is free drinks and possibly a meal if you play long enough. But if you are a drinker, it can be worth it if you add in the price of a buffet. You shouldn't lose enough at those levels to make up the price of the comps if you know BS well enough not to make mistakes.

 

[tribute]

I was talking about people who walk into a casino, sit down at a blackjack table, having taken no time to learn basic strategy, or any strategy at all, and proceed to watch their bankroll fade into oblivion, then justfy their misfortune with the statement I described above. I believe there is such a thing as entertainment value. But if I can buy it for .65 or less, while at the same time, cover my RFB, my "entertainment" will surely last longer, and I may just happen to go home with some extra cash.

 

[Mikeaber]

I was talking about people who walk into a casino, sit down at a blackjack table, having taken no time to learn basic strategy, or any strategy at all, and proceed to watch their bankroll fade into oblivion, then justfy their misfortune with the statement I described above. I believe there is such a thing as entertainment value. But if I can buy it for .65 or less, while at the same time, cover my RFB, my "entertainment" will surely last longer, and I may just happen to go home with some extra cash.

Well, I'd say that anyone who plays with a loaded gun and doesn't know anything about guns is playing a dangerous game. But, as with loaded guns and those who don't know how to play with them....the situation is self correcting both with the guns and with blackjack <LOL>. My guns are loaded, I love to shoot and I'm still around <smile>.

Now someone here said that "Most Gamblers" play for entertainment. I don't have numbers to back that up with the general gambling public but I suspect that it is true (I've heard that 90% of the people who play do not know BS and experience tends to confirm that in my estimation.) But on this forum, those who play for entertainment are few and far between with all of the advantage play going on. Someday, I'll grow up and start counting seriously if for no other reason for "the Challenge" of something new and the FACT that it will pay off makes it tempting.

As you might be able to tell, I've had a really good pain killer and have been rambling and refuse to go back and read what I just wrote. So there! I'm on my way to play some Blackjack with a -5.65% house edge (Oklahoma) so I NEEDED the pain killer!

 

[zengrifter]

I was talking about ... if I can buy it for .65 or less, while at the same time, cover my RFB, my "entertainment" ...

Thats not how it works - BS is typically .50 or less and .15-.20% is awarded back - net loss theoretical is .35% approx. zg

 

[tribute]

Actually, according to the chart on this site, the house advantage for the game I play is 0.20%. To me that's almost dead even. With my room and food comps, maybe I AM on the plus side. They even send me a little cash now and then. Probably cheaper than playing golf, too.

 

[zengrifter]

Actually, according to the chart on this site, the house advantage for the game I play is 0.20%. To me that's almost dead even. With my room and food comps, maybe I AM on the plus side. They even send me a little cash now and then. Probably cheaper than playing golf, too.

I mis-calculated in haste, you are RIGHT -
BS housEdge = .50%
COMPS = .80% (2.0% x .40%)
Net +EV = .30% (in your case +.60%)! zg

 

[tribute]

Zengrifter,
It gives me great pleasure to see you admit error, Oh enlightened One!
No, I really do enjoy your rants and raves here and elsewhere. But you and I are truly on opposite ends of the spectrum. Who knows, maybe somewhere, some day, we may have the privilege to grace the felt and change the world!

 

[Mikeaber]

Beat the Odds...Again!

I don't understand this. This is like the 5th trip in a row I've made to Oklahoma and played $5 flat betting against a $.25 ante....and WON. This time, I played for 4 hours and ended up $165.00. I figure that with the slow play down there, we are lucky to get in 35 hands per hour (13 hands per shoe and 3 shoes per hour.) $.25 with a $5 bet plus the .65% house edge makes the true house edge as far as I am concerned, 5.65%! The ante over that 4 hours cost me $35 so without the ante, I would have been up $200.

No comps to complicate matters in Oklahoma unless you put some value on coffee and soda pop.

Maybe I should just start looking for the worst games to play! Maybe 6:5 BJs???????

 

[E-town-guy]

I mis-calculated in haste, you are RIGHT -
BS housEdge = .50%
COMPS = .80% (2.0% x .40%)
Net +EV = .30% (in your case +.60%)! zg

How did you figure out the value comps add to your game?

 

[tribute]

Some casinos base your comps on a rate of 2% of your total action(time at the tables X average bet) and return a portion of that in comps. In Zen's example, 40% of the 2% was awarded to the player.