BJ Switch....

phantom007

Well-Known Member
Will be in LV for about 10 days in mid-April. First 3 days just pleasure, i.e., staying Downtown, a.k.a BJ Business! The rest of the trip on the Strip, but for "regular" business purposes. Had planned to hit appropriate SD/DD action DOWNTOWN, then DD and SF21 action on the Strip, for the rest of the Trip.

BUT NOW I FIND that 4Q's has BJ-Switch.

BONER!

Any ideas on AP for BJ-Switch would be appreciated.

Thanks,

phantom007.
 

Tom

Well-Known Member
I cant say much about BJ switch, but why in the heck would a card counter go to Vegas and waste time playing carnival games?
 

learning to count

Well-Known Member
Because "Advantage Players" look for the weakness in these games. They may have an advantage. This the comming trend as per Grosjean. Phantom is an extremely Talented and aggressive AP. He is looking to see if there is an advantage.
 

Tom

Well-Known Member
carnival games

If you're a card counter it's not a good idea to support these new funny carnival games that Vegas keeps coming up. There's too many good traditional blackjack games offered to keep busy.

By the way did you know if you spread 50 to 1 at 6/5 single deck BJ you can win?

BIG deal.
 

eyesfor21

Well-Known Member
tremendous heat now in the: carnival games

there was none 8 months ago,,but they the pit have
gone nuts again..with heat on the )(*&(* games of super fun21 and 6/5
no heat on spanish 21 the worst on all

try an old place that pays normally on bjacks with ls,das and
lets you dbl on any three cards...thats right three
no where,,,do your homework kiddies...
that is where the ball gets going for $$
 

john

Well-Known Member
Re: I seen a pit critter sweat 6/5 before-(hee, hee.)

I just got back from a trip and there was this guy who was betting the lucky 7s side bet and hitting them. He walked away with over 1000 dollars I believe and when the dealer said "coloring in 1000" the bosses started glaring over their shoulder at the guy and whispering. They went over and picked up the buy-in tally sheet (or whatever that is called) and looked back at him. I asked the guy what "they" were flipping out about and he said "I don't know." The guy had stacks and stacks of greens. I'm sorry. I'm new to all this and it just surprised me. He looked to be about 25 years old. Of course, I 'm not sure what he started with either, but he was on the 5 dollar minimum table!!!! Always good to be red chipping it next to a guy who is coloring in 1000, you know.
 

Felix Rue-de-Guerre

Well-Known Member
The Wizardofodds stated the BSE is %0.05. from the game designer herself.
No A.P. OP?

At this point, I would love to hear a reason this game cannot be beaten!

-Felix
 

Tom

Well-Known Member
Some pit critters never smile at winners.

It's ashame, but they appear to get real anal.
 

Tom

Well-Known Member
Rules have changed.

Besides, it's not like you see these games in every casino. I believe in the USA, there's only one table in existence. Trust me, if you're a card counter, a good traditional BJ game is more practical and easier to find.
 

Felix Rue-de-Guerre

Well-Known Member
Re: Rules have changed.

>>Rules have changed.

>>Besides, it's not like you see these games in every casino. I believe in the USA, >>there's only one table in existence.

Points taken.

>>if you're a card counter, a good traditional BJ game is more practical and easier to >>find.

For me, Personally, counting cards is not a terribly practical thing to do. Considering my chip level and my salary, "more practical" would mean spending my weekends working. card counting can be profitable, but an aesthetic comes with it too. I couldn't criticize anyone for adding another A.P. Op to their arsenal if they wanted to. Even if they never used it.

-Felix
 

phantom007

Well-Known Member
Because "It is There".....

BJ Switch, with Perfect BS, offers the Player a -0.05 Disadvantage. Seems to my simple mind that a good CC should be able to "exploit" this game...simply asking if there is any data/ideas as to accomplish same.

Certainly, I would agree, "that a good CC should not waste his/her time on Carnival games", BUT, I must suggest that:

A. Good CC's need "Cover".

B. Cover at a -0.05% game might be better than Craps with 20X odds.

C. I like/want the challenge!

That is my input/explaination.

phantom007.
 

Tom

Well-Known Member
Re: Because "It is There".....

I'd check to see if the rules are the same before you get started though. It's my understanding there was some tweaking going on with this and that. Do you already know the proper count strategy and index numbers to use?

Good luck,
Tom
 

Tom

Well-Known Member
Re: Rules have changed.

"For me, Personally, counting cards is not a terribly practical thing to do."

Well, maybe not for you,are you even a card counter may I ask? Just because someone has a job does not mean card counting is not practical,of course it is. If all casinos got rid of blackjack I would never visit them or waste my time looking for some golden goose that lays eggs by some fluke of chance or mishap. Dig them broken slots?

Tom
 

Geoff Hall

Well-Known Member
Re: carnival games *LINK*

It is an unfair comparison to advocate an avoidance to play these type of 'carnival' games i.e. 'Blackjack Switch' and use 'BJ pays 6/5' as a comparison.

BJ Switch was invented as a serious proposition for players who want to play a fair game as well as for those players who were looking for a fun alternatve to regular Blackjack.

It is difficult to get acceptance, by casinos, for a game which has a low house edge. Their main arguement being 'Why should we pay for a game that will not make us more money ?'. Obviously, 'BJ Switch' will not compete with the play at an established game i.e. regular Blackjack until it has established itself fully as a regular alternative available in numerous casinos.

This is now the case in Moscow where the game has grown from being in just 1 casino, 10 months ago, to now being available in over 20 casinos in that area. I hope that the same expansion will happen in the USA but I also realise that the clientele are different.

Personally I would rather that Advantage Players avoided the game, in it's early stages, as this may have an effect on the casino's view as to whether to keep the game in as a viable alternative. Once the game has been established then it will be more secure and will be able to withstand a 'hit' by Advantage Players (and this was the case in Moscow when very player-friendly rules were used).

Most Advantage Players will avoid the game for 2 reasons :-
1) They do not know the strategy of the game.
2) They are not aware of the house edge but will presume that it is high (as with most other carnival games).

Some strategies have been posted on the Internet mainly due to it's presence on the Playtech Internet sites. However, the land-based version is slightly different and will therefore involve slight changes in strategy. As far as I am aware, I am the only person (along with Karel Janecek) who has the critical indices for the game, and, for resons stated earlier, I do not wish to release them at this time.

The game at The 4 Queens is a FAIR PROPOSITION - it's not another 'Super Fun 21' or 'BJ Pays a whopping 6/5' style of game. However, the casino must make a reasonable edge on the game to avoid either changing the rules or (worse of all) removing the game completely. If it was hammered in it's early stages by counters reacting to the fact that it may not make it to other casinos, then this will have a very adverse effect on it's expansion. It's a bit of a 'catch 22' - early stages are the best time to catch a new game when casinos are naive towards the strategy but it's also the worse time to catch the game as it will effect it's installation potential into other casinos across America.

Also, eventually there will be a casino that wishes to attract more customers on the game and will possibly employ even more favourable rules as a result.

So, the house edge of the game at The 4 Queens ???

For perfect play it is 0.22% and although this would require perfect 'Switching' (which is unlikely to be done) it is pretty good for a multi-deck game. In fact players would be around 1% better off playing BJ Switch than the other 2 carnival games that I mentioned previously.

The reason that the house edge can be so low is that the 'Switch' gives another 'weapon' to the average player for him to shoot himself in the foot with. 'Switching' errors, along with playing errors, will allow the casino to enjoy at least their usual hold on BJ Switch as they do with regular Blackjack, despite the fact that a knowledgeable Advantage Player may be better off.

So it's a fine balance, especially at this early stage. Too many clever players will deteriorate the expected edge that the average players will give back. Let the game develop and then take your pick from the casinos that have the game in - it will be best for both worlds in the end.

Best regards

Geoff
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
Re: carnival games

> Obviously, 'BJ Switch' will not compete with the play at an established
> game i.e. regular Blackjack until it has established itself fully as a
> regular alternative available in numerous casinos.

...or until someone writes a book about how it can be beaten! If there were books with acurate basic strategies (or the casinos started printing and giving away those cute little strategy cards in the gift shop) I think the game would SOAR! Who will be the next to wear Ed Thorp's shoes? This is also a HUGE opportunity for all the John Patricks out there as well!

> Most Advantage Players will avoid the game for 2 reasons :-
> 1) They do not know the strategy of the game.
> 2) They are not aware of the house edge but will presume that it is high
> (as with most other carnival games).

You are absolutely right. These are also the main reasons that ploppies avoid these games. People tend to fear the unfamiliar, especially when their money is at stake. Until people understand the game they will not want to play it. That's where the advantage players come in. It's up to US to make people want to play this game. On the other hand, it is up to US to make sure that other worthless carnival games don't ever become popular. We have more power to promote these games than the casinos do! Sure, we will always be taking money from the good games, but we will be filling the other 5 seats at the table with losers. Without advantage players, the casino games would all fall into obscurity.

-Sonny-
 
Top