Black Chip Vegas - Help Please!

Percy

Well-Known Member
I am shortly flying out to LV for a two week stay. I am very concerned that my bj play will be brought to a premature end due to the intense scrutiny I am likely to receive. I am therefore wondering if there is anyone out there who could offer me some advice or guidance.

Here is where I’m up to so far....

Background

I have been playing for about a year and a half (previously full time, now part time) as a card counter. I am yet to learn any advanced strategies. I use Wong Halves and have only played shoe games. The BR I play off can withstand bets of up to 2x$1000 (this is with a very acceptable RoR).

Although I am looking to have a good time (along with my girlfriend), I am and will be extremely professionally minded towards blackjack throughout my trip.

I intend to adopt two styles of play.

Home Joint Play

  • Register with a carefully chosen casino. Ideally one that is not part of a big company and offers a game with a low house edge. Penetration is not so important.
  • Find out the requirement for RFB with three hours of play, and then play a 1-3 spread (on shoes) with basic cover to hopefully achieve something slightly above a break even game.
  • I have read Max Rubin’s Comp City and aim to utilize his techniques to cut out unnecessary variance and damage to my bankroll.

Unregistered Play

  • Play in the other LV casinos unrated with a more aggressive style of play
  • A spread of 1x$200 - 2x$1000 (shoes) is what I’m currently considering.
  • Play no more than one full cycle or 45 mins in each casino. Whichever happens first.
  • In the first week, only play once in each of the three shifts in each casino. If I experience intense heat during one shift in a casino, do not return to the casino during that shift in the second week.
  • Basic cover play:
    1. always stand 16vs10
    2. do not hit 12vs2,3
    3. insure only good hands only (when the count justifies it)
    4. let big winning bets ride at the end of the shoe (until they lose)

Conclusion

These are the fundamentals of my strategy for Vegas. I guess the most important questions I would like answered are the following:

  • Based on what’s written above, is my strategy realistically sustainable for the two weeks?
  • What would you change about the strategies I have set out?
  • Is there anything else you think I should learn/read/practice before I head out?


I would be extremely grateful for anybody’s advice. Particularly if they themselves have had experience doing something similar.


Please PM me with any responses.
 
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shadroch

Well-Known Member
If you have the BR for 2X$1,000 bets, why worry about the RFB. Rent a villa or townhouse for the two weeks and don't worry about playing a break even game. Just fire away.
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
Shad makes a good point. Rooms in Vegas are cheap now. Play your best game everywhere. It will cost you more to play a break even game for several hours a day. One of those places may even offer you a room.

Otherwise, your plan sounds well thought out.
 

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
There's Heat & Then There's Heat!

Double $1,000 white hot heat, even more if table max:joker::whip:
Double $800 red hot
Doube $500 very hot, more so if table max
Double $400 heat
Double black diminishing heat but still sweaty

Pick your strength of abestos undies:joker::whip:

It sounds like this is a replenishable bank to a certain extent. If it is not replenishable or nearly not then I would drop the ror to well under 1% thereby betting less and drawing less attention.

If you are on the verge of a $10,000 buy in they will want your name and SS. So another reason to tread carefully with those $1,000 bets.:joker::whip:
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
I don't play at your level percy and am still learning what is and isn't tolerated at the $400 max bet level, so I won't offer any advise on your wagering, but I did have a couple comments about your play style.

#1. Why would you only insure "good" hands if the count calls for it? Insurance is the single most important strategy play. At your level of play, you are giving away too much by not taking full advantage of it. If the count calls for it, insure, period.

#2. If you are going to play a short sessions, hit and run style anyway, why not end that session after the shoe ending with a high count rather than letting $2000 worth of bets ride on the first hand of a new shoe?
 

21forme

Well-Known Member
blackjack avenger said:
If you are on the verge of a $10,000 buy in they will want your name and SS. So another reason to tread carefully with those $1,000 bets.:joker::whip:
He's from the UK. They don't have SSNs.
 

sabre

Well-Known Member
kewljason said:
#1. Why would you only insure "good" hands if the count calls for it? Insurance is the single most important strategy play. At your level of play, you are giving away too much by not taking full advantage of it. If the count calls for it, insure, period.
I'm not going to disagree that failing to insure crap hands costs a lot. I'm also not going to argue that any cover obtained by insuring only good hands outweighs that cost. However, one thing I've noticed over hundreds of hours of play, is that ploppies DO NOT INSURE bad hands. They just don't. How many times have you seen a ding dong insure his 14? I mean, I've just never, ever seen it. They insure BJs and 20s. Maybe 19s.

If I was tasked with catching counters in a casino, I'd run a check on anyone insuring an 18 or worse with non-trivial money on the table.
 

kewljason

Well-Known Member
sabre said:
I'm not going to disagree that failing to insure crap hands costs a lot. I'm also not going to argue that any cover obtained by insuring only good hands outweighs that cost. However, one thing I've noticed over hundreds of hours of play, is that ploppies DO NOT INSURE bad hands. They just don't. How many times have you seen a ding dong insure his 14? I mean, I've just never, ever seen it. They insure BJs and 20s. Maybe 19s.

If I was tasked with catching counters in a casino, I'd run a check on anyone insuring an 18 or worse with non-trivial money on the table.
Good point sabre, but I just don't see the need to give away EV on any of these cover plays actually for a short stay. Playing short sessions is all the cover you need. Now if someone was going for an extended period of time of several months or played Vegas regularly, I might think about incorporating some cover plays, but for a 2 week stay, I say, get in, hit em hard and get out.
 

sabre

Well-Known Member
I'd agree ... there are so many casinos on the strip that you should be able to do some serious damage with short sessions and no playing cover. Especially if you're targeting mainly shoes.
 

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
21forme said:
He's from the UK. They don't have SSNs.
A UK citizen? or his location is UK? which says nothing about his citizenship. Although with the handle Percy I am inclined to think he is English.:joker::whip:

Does not really matter

He will still be asked for ID as he approaches a 10g buy in, if he refuses ID he will probably have his cash buy of chips limited.
 

Percy

Well-Known Member
Thank you and Break Even Strategies

Thank you everyone for your feedback you so far. It is greatly appreciated.


I am also not in the least bothered that some of you disagree with one another. If anything, it gives me more options and extra flexibility in making the appropriate call for a given situation. And besides, if we all played the same way, none of us would last very long...

I think kewl's right in saying that cover is almost pointless when playing such short sessions. I think, on the whole, I will go in there and play by the book.

With regards to playing for comps - it is a game I want to play. I appreciate the 'opportunity cost' of doing so is quite high when I could otherwise be plundering the strip, but we are there to have a good time as well. Pacing it up and down the LVB 24/7 (in the peak of the Nevadan summer) (with angry pit bosses in tow) is not something that really appeals to me let alone my gf.

So, my next questions are as follows.

- When playing for comps, is a small spread (1-3 on shoes) likely to be enough to subdue the casino's fears that I might be counter?
- Or am I likely to have to incorporate other cover mechanisms as well?

I'm particularly concerned that they'll use a computer to evaluate my play and that it will show me to be a break even player. Effectively a worthless customer to the casino. The comps would dry up and I may then get barred. In short:

- What do people think is the best way to play a break even game?
 

sabre

Well-Known Member
I don't think a single strip casino with nice carpets is going to care about a 1-3 spread on a shoe game. Interestingly enough though, it might actually be more productive to use a slightly larger spread, but make some obvious basic strategy mistakes if your goal is to maximize comps.

Option A:
Play perfect strategy with a 1-3 spread

Casino might rate you as a competent basic strategy player, and give you X comps. They'll never check if you're counting.

Option B:
Play a 1-6 spread but do some crazy things (double TvT, TvA, always stand on S18, always take even money, always stand 16vT)

Casino might rate you as a dingdong, and give you > X comps. They'll never check if you're counting.


Option B might give you a better SCORE AND more comps.
 

blackjack avenger

Well-Known Member
Cards vs Pool

Instead of playing a break even game for 4 hrs why not play aggressive for 1 to 2 hrs, make money and spend some time by the pool?:joker::whip:

playing a break even game is very hard on your bankroll:joker::whip:

When you are playing for comps you are hoping you get them while giving them your name, think of the fun of playing break even for hours and then getting the tap with no comps. This side of comp playing is never mentioned.
 
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