blackjack 20 years ago vs. today
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Jack_Black
Well-Known Member
I'm just a young whipper snapper, but if you are referring to conditions since 1989, I do know that CSMs, 6:5 payouts, poor penetration, etc, have been degrading the game since. But there are a slew of things that has happened since then. You're asking a pretty general question, like asking what has happened in the NFL for the past 20 years. do you have any specifics?
My goal was to be vague. I'm interested in the perception from those that have been actively involved in the pit over the past two decades. I'm very aware of the conditions today but i wonder about the conditions years ago. If they offered the same game today that they offered twenty years ago, how would we fair. What was the base game available? 1d, 2d, 6d? What kind of penetration? What kind of rules/playing conditions? Did the floor know anything? If so, what kind of spread/plays could you pull off?
I'm just wondering.
I'm just wondering.
Pro21
Well-Known Member
20 years ago was not much different. 30 years ago it was.
20 years ago all the places had already moved to 6 deck, about 75% penetration, and mostly bad shuffles. 6-5 had not come in yet, nor had CSMs. The pits in Vegas at that time may have been a bit sharper, but the major change in those 20 years is that casinos have opened everywhere, and many, many new games have come into the casinos.
20 years ago all the places had already moved to 6 deck, about 75% penetration, and mostly bad shuffles. 6-5 had not come in yet, nor had CSMs. The pits in Vegas at that time may have been a bit sharper, but the major change in those 20 years is that casinos have opened everywhere, and many, many new games have come into the casinos.
QFIT
Well-Known Member
One large change that people rarely mention is the change in attitude. This happened long ago. I remember chatting with casino workers in the 80s about how Vegas was once such a friendly city, but had lost it. It may be that the mob knew how to treat gamblers better than corporate America.
Pro21
Well-Known Member
Part of that I think was because Vegas was really a small town. in 1980 I think the population of the entire state was about 300,000.
Regarding the pit, it used to be the pit bosses job to protect the games, and surveillance was really pretty useless. Now pit bosses really are just over worked clerks that are so swamped with paperwork they have almost no time to watch games, and because of that the vast majority know nothing about the games they are watching. How many times have you seen a pit boss look down at the layout of a carnival game to see what the payoff is supposed to be?
Regarding the pit, it used to be the pit bosses job to protect the games, and surveillance was really pretty useless. Now pit bosses really are just over worked clerks that are so swamped with paperwork they have almost no time to watch games, and because of that the vast majority know nothing about the games they are watching. How many times have you seen a pit boss look down at the layout of a carnival game to see what the payoff is supposed to be?
Jack_Black
Well-Known Member
Young whipper snapper here again. Call me crazy but I would prefer being politely asked not to play blackjack anymore by a corporate hoodlum moreso than being backroomed and roughed up by a mafia hoodlum. The gun totin, fuggedaboutit, you'll never take me alive copper! Mobster was more polite than weiner type corporate gangsters? It sounds as though the mob read way too deeply into Macchiavellian ideals, a la “The Prince” In that a good ruler will lavish his subjects when he is pleased with them, but when he is displeased, he will also punish them lavishly. What would a mobster do back then that was so pleasant? “Hey Tony, I like ya. I promise I won't whack your family.......today.”
It intrigues me that the game has gotten worse since my short 1.5 year career. At least in Colorado, people don't play the games when they change the rules from decent to sucky. So I would assume there is a breaking point that even ploppies won't play at anymore, hence saving the game for all.
It intrigues me that the game has gotten worse since my short 1.5 year career. At least in Colorado, people don't play the games when they change the rules from decent to sucky. So I would assume there is a breaking point that even ploppies won't play at anymore, hence saving the game for all.
I've played in CO a few times and that's where I've seen the worst players I've ever witnessed. The worst rules I've seen are 6D H17 DAS no LS no RSA which aren't terrible (pen dependent) compared with many of the games in AC or LV. What kind of rules are you talking about?Jack_Black said:
A few years ago I stopped in a CO casino on the way to the airport after a ski trip. As I recall, I wonged into a 4D game with a monster count. I spread from 1 hand of $5 to 4 hands of $5 and won $35. When back in the car I was trying to figure how much I would have won if I could have bet real moneyQFIT said:Colorado used to have two early surrender games. OTOH, the max bet used to be $5 and many games had a $2 flat bet. Try to make money with a $5 top bet.
Jack_Black
Well-Known Member
Ehhhhh, I really opened up a can of worms on this one. Maybe this post should be moved to the western land based casinos section?......................
.............................Now back to the heat issue, I'm sure the local PCs will wise up sooner or later, so if there are any CO counters on this forum, LISTEN UP! Quit being stupidly obvious! I'm talking to you Mr. college nerd that I played with at the SD game! If you're on here, listen to me right now. All you do is stare intensely at the damn cards, don't say a word to anybody, and you go from one hand of $10 to 3 hands of $50 in a heartbeat!!! did you not notice the nice grandpa PC sitting and staring right at you the whole time? He is really a nice grandpa like guy, and it felt like you were mugging him. He didn't know what to do or say, probably because you were the first stupidly obvious counter he has ever run into. If you're not talkative, at least be courteous and say hello and goodbye. A little pleasantry will help your longevity buddy.
So there is your Mountain town Low down. I'm Jack Black, wishin you well and give the casinos hell. and tune in next time, same black channel, same jack place.
.............................Now back to the heat issue, I'm sure the local PCs will wise up sooner or later, so if there are any CO counters on this forum, LISTEN UP! Quit being stupidly obvious! I'm talking to you Mr. college nerd that I played with at the SD game! If you're on here, listen to me right now. All you do is stare intensely at the damn cards, don't say a word to anybody, and you go from one hand of $10 to 3 hands of $50 in a heartbeat!!! did you not notice the nice grandpa PC sitting and staring right at you the whole time? He is really a nice grandpa like guy, and it felt like you were mugging him. He didn't know what to do or say, probably because you were the first stupidly obvious counter he has ever run into. If you're not talkative, at least be courteous and say hello and goodbye. A little pleasantry will help your longevity buddy.
So there is your Mountain town Low down. I'm Jack Black, wishin you well and give the casinos hell. and tune in next time, same black channel, same jack place.
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Jack_Black
Well-Known Member
Hmmmm, I'm beginning to wonder if that was TMI. Too much info. I'll take it down, if someone requests it.
.................Too late, I already thought about it. Qfit and 21forme, I saved the post, if you're interested. But needless to say, Colorado has changed a lot (in a good way) since the last time you guys were here.
.................Too late, I already thought about it. Qfit and 21forme, I saved the post, if you're interested. But needless to say, Colorado has changed a lot (in a good way) since the last time you guys were here.
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