Blackjack psychology

[RJMNYC]

I found this on the blackjack-student website and found it interesting.

There can be little doubt that gambling, both for business and pleasure, is a high adrenaline, and often, addictive pursuit. Gamblings addictive qualities account for the fact that it can produce scientifically recorded highs, (high levels of serotonin release). Many psychologists have theorised and debated over the altered states of consciousness that gambling produces. It is only Blackjack however, that gives a player the additional sensation of being in control of their own destiny. It has been shown that less than 1% of the gambling public actually beats the casino in the long run. This would support the claim made by the vast majority of casino visitors that they play Blackjack merely for the fun of it and not necessarily to make money. Others say that mere participation, whether they are winning or losing, makes them feel alive. If feeling alive is measured by a players sense of emotional arousal, then Blackjack cannot help but fit the bill. Hope, excitement, power, euphoria, despair, frustration and anger are but a few of the emotions that can be summoned on the turn of a card. When a player wins, their self-esteem rises, as they believe (rightly or wrongly,) that their success came from their courage to risk, and their skill in making the right decision. When a player loses they often associate their loss with other problems they may be experiencing. In either case the player feels involved. To them, the emotions that Blackjack brings forth (even the negative ones,) offer a more interesting alternative to the humdrum boredom of day-to-day existence. The professional Blackjack player is aware of the powerful lure that these altered states of consciousness have on both mind, and on their ability to play dispassionately and objectively. They develop a game plan and never make the fatal mistake of diverging from it. Once they stray from the path, instead of them controlling the game, the game controls them and they have lost. The professional Blackjack player will consistently and vigilantly remind themselves that they are there to make money, and not just to have fun in these lavish fantasy environments so generously provided by the casinos.

 

[sagefr0g]

I found this on the blackjack-student website and found it interesting.

There can be little doubt that gambling, both for business and pleasure, is a high adrenaline, and often, addictive pursuit. Gamblings addictive qualities account for the fact that it can produce scientifically recorded highs, (high levels of serotonin release). Many psychologists have theorised and debated over the altered states of consciousness that gambling produces. It is only Blackjack however, that gives a player the additional sensation of being in control of their own destiny. It has been shown that less than 1% of the gambling public actually beats the casino in the long run. This would support the claim made by the vast majority of casino visitors that they play Blackjack merely for the fun of it and not necessarily to make money. Others say that mere participation, whether they are winning or losing, makes them feel alive. If feeling alive is measured by a players sense of emotional arousal, then Blackjack cannot help but fit the bill. Hope, excitement, power, euphoria, despair, frustration and anger are but a few of the emotions that can be summoned on the turn of a card. When a player wins, their self-esteem rises, as they believe (rightly or wrongly,) that their success came from their courage to risk, and their skill in making the right decision. When a player loses they often associate their loss with other problems they may be experiencing. In either case the player feels involved. To them, the emotions that Blackjack brings forth (even the negative ones,) offer a more interesting alternative to the humdrum boredom of day-to-day existence. The professional Blackjack player is aware of the powerful lure that these altered states of consciousness have on both mind, and on their ability to play dispassionately and objectively. They develop a game plan and never make the fatal mistake of diverging from it. Once they stray from the path, instead of them controlling the game, the game controls them and they have lost. The professional Blackjack player will consistently and vigilantly remind themselves that they are there to make money, and not just to have fun in these lavish fantasy environments so generously provided by the casinos.

interesting abstract. i think it's a bit weak on the part of player pyschology (whatever you wanna call it) with respect to losing.
also just me maybe and i'm no pro or even an AP either but just what they say about a pro's comportment seems a bit naive. i mean in the sense of why choose to be a pro in the first place and what is a pro gonna do with thier time playing and time otherwise? maybe rent a room in the Hanoi Hilton? doesn't anyone persuing a profession want to engage that pursuit in as euphoric a state as possible?
also the point about straying from the path and vigilantly going after the money seems again a bit naive.

 

[ihate17]

you can try to punch holes in this

interesting abstract. i think it's a bit weak on the part of player pyschology (whatever you wanna call it) with respect to losing.
also just me maybe and i'm no pro or even an AP either but just what they say about a pro's comportment seems a bit naive. i mean in the sense of why choose to be a pro in the first place and what is a pro gonna do with thier time playing and time otherwise? maybe rent a room in the Hanoi Hilton? doesn't anyone persuing a profession want to engage that pursuit in as euphoric a state as possible?
also the point about straying from the path and vigilantly going after the money seems again a bit naive.

You can try to punch holes in this but they are overall pin pricks. the psychological aspect of blackjack when it comes to a cardcounter is in my opinion the difference between the vast majority of people who attempt counting and those few who are actually advantage players. All the emothional (pyschological) things that happen to you on the table, especially when negative variance shows itself, turn the novice cardcounter into a long term loser unless he can overcome these things with this so called pro's comportment.
The guy who way overbets his bankroll in a high count because he has lost 4 straight max bets and knows he still has an edge on the next hand, the guy who fails to bet enough because he was earlier beaten down in a good count, the guy who plays a marathon session while tired, attempting to get his losses back and there are many other examples of how cardcounters are losers, are all examples of falling victim to the negative psychological aspects of the game.

Being a cardcounter does not equal being an AP. Being a cardcounter is only a component, and an easy one at that, of being an AP.

ihate17

 

[sagefr0g]

You can try to punch holes in this but they are overall pin pricks.

that's how i saw the original abstract. interesting but shallow at the same time. it's i suspect a really deep subject, not that i have a clue.

the psychological aspect of blackjack when it comes to a cardcounter is in my opinion the difference between the vast majority of people who attempt counting and those few who are actually advantage players. All the emothional (pyschological) things that happen to you on the table, especially when negative variance shows itself, turn the novice cardcounter into a long term loser unless he can overcome these things with this so called pro's comportment.
The guy who way overbets his bankroll in a high count because he has lost 4 straight max bets and knows he still has an edge on the next hand, the guy who fails to bet enough because he was earlier beaten down in a good count, the guy who plays a marathon session while tired, attempting to get his losses back and there are many other examples of how cardcounters are losers, are all examples of falling victim to the negative psychological aspects of the game.

pretty much the point of the abstract i guess only your adding in some of the specifics. no arguement with all that. just my suspicion is that there's even more complexity involved both psychological and technical not to mention the realities of whats out there with respect to casino environments and one's personal life. just as an example think of the scenerio from a team aspect as opposed to an individual AP pro sort of thing. do AP team players form unions? lmao.
then and maybe it's just me but when you get into this risk of ruin stuff and maybe how real it can be that a great plan and follow through can fail is where the abstract seems wholly naive or at least ignoring a whole quetionable very complex subject of substantial consequences.

Being a cardcounter does not equal being an AP. Being a cardcounter is only a component, and an easy one at that, of being an AP.

ihate17

lol just that component of it wasn't easy enough for me.

 

[Bojack1]

interesting abstract. i think it's a bit weak on the part of player pyschology (whatever you wanna call it) with respect to losing.
also just me maybe and i'm no pro or even an AP either but just what they say about a pro's comportment seems a bit naive. i mean in the sense of why choose to be a pro in the first place and what is a pro gonna do with thier time playing and time otherwise? maybe rent a room in the Hanoi Hilton? doesn't anyone persuing a profession want to engage that pursuit in as euphoric a state as possible?
also the point about straying from the path and vigilantly going after the money seems again a bit naive.

No disrepesct to you sagefrog, but I think whats naive here is assuming anothers thoughts based on your own without any personal same instance experience. What you may think a professional BJ player may think is based on self professed limited knowledge of even being an AP. Although I agree that to be successful at any profession you should show a certain zest for it, not all professions require an outward pouring of emotion to achieve that. In fact being able to hone your skills to the point of playing BJ without emotional attachment can in itself be a chest pounding accomplishment based on the events that are sure to happen. It is a great sense of pride knowing that being able to play in this manner while most others that try can't, and don't even comprehend it for that matter. That in itself can be as you stated euphoric.

Being able to perform something well always delivers a certain satisfaction. In this case it means separating mind from money. In playing BJ professionally money serves 2 purposes. Obviously it is a source of income. But while playing it serves as a tool of the trade. Its what allows you to accomplish the task at hand. Its necessary but has an inanimate function until which time its payday. My bankroll does not serve as my or my teams pay, as much as it is a needed tool in getting paid. Of course no mechanic wants to lose or have tools destroyed, as well as we don't want to lose bankroll. But its a fact of the job and like a mechanic should not panic on losing some tools, nor should a pro losing some bankroll. In the end a good mechanic can buy a new wrench, and a good pro will get his bankroll back.

 

[cardcounter0]

A 'true' AP would take this one step further.

Observe the ploppy, doubling down on his 10, pounding the table for an Ace, getting it, and clapping his hands with glee! Wheeee! The euphoria of gambling.

Observe the cardcounter, colding calculating, mechanically doubling down on his 10, not even a hint of smile when he gets his Ace. Just another day at the office, what did you expect with a sky-high positive count?

Observe the 'true' Advantage player, oooops!, you already did -- he was the guy pounding the table that you thought was a lucky ploppy.
:eyepatch:

 

[Bojack1]

A 'true' AP would take this one step further.

Observe the ploppy, doubling down on his 10, pounding the table for an Ace, getting it, and clapping his hands with glee! Wheeee! The euphoria of gambling.

Observe the cardcounter, colding calculating, mechanically doubling down on his 10, not even a hint of smile when he gets his Ace. Just another day at the office, what did you expect with a sky-high positive count?

Observe the 'true' Advantage player, oooops!, you already did -- he was the guy pounding the table that you thought was a lucky ploppy.
:eyepatch:

When I speak of playing without an emotional attachment, it is meant in the true sense, not in what cover may allow. I spoke on the pyschology of the game, not what may be fabricated to hide the truth.

 

[sagefr0g]

No disrepesct to you sagefrog, but I think whats naive here is assuming anothers thoughts based on your own without any personal same instance experience. What you may think a professional BJ player may think is based on self professed limited knowledge of even being an AP.

none taken lol.
kind of me the pot callin the kettle black. lmao. good point. i know i'm naive just i think when i realized that it was a step forward.
just would add that the abstract (posted earlier) doesn't add anything new or unknown for most any of us. the same stuff we all know sort of thing.
it's surprising to me that you a seasoned vet that you are, don't find the abstract mired in naivety. guess that means i'm wrong. but maybe if you look back in your long experience there might be a whisper in your recollection of the psychology of your being that you might recognize some switch over points with respect to naivety. remmember i'm a green horn novice. :cat:

Although I agree that to be successful at any profession you should show a certain zest for it, not all professions require an outward pouring of emotion to achieve that. In fact being able to hone your skills to the point of playing BJ without emotional attachment can in itself be a chest pounding accomplishment based on the events that are sure to happen. It is a great sense of pride knowing that being able to play in this manner while most others that try can't, and don't even comprehend it for that matter. That in itself can be as you stated euphoric.

yep, i can understand that. it's like i know you must have had over all those years to endure what to a less sophisticated mind or level of comportment would have been a lot of painful experiences. and i should imagine you found a way to deal with that. me i know i could never do it with out sort of tricking my self in a non-malignant way. to be able to do that for me is a step out of naivety even if maybe it's not what a pro does to overcome those archaic emotions and viewpoints that most anyone has (regardless of their intellectual understanding) that may not be in line with a proper approach to playing blackjack for a profit. i just think the abstract in question sort of hand waved off those kind of considerations.

Being able to perform something well always delivers a certain satisfaction. In this case it means separating mind from money. In playing BJ professionally money serves 2 purposes. Obviously it is a source of income. But while playing it serves as a tool of the trade. Its what allows you to accomplish the task at hand. Its necessary but has an inanimate function until which time its payday. My bankroll does not serve as my or my teams pay, as much as it is a needed tool in getting paid. Of course no mechanic wants to lose or have tools destroyed, as well as we don't want to lose bankroll. But its a fact of the job and like a mechanic should not panic on losing some tools, nor should a pro losing some bankroll. In the end a good mechanic can buy a new wrench, and a good pro will get his bankroll back.

yup and it's the sort of thing if not understood, planned for or at least having the capability to deal with that i should imagine could sink an otherwise sea worth ship. lol. it's like you say the reality of the situation and it's like i say maybe something not so well thoroughly understood or really addressed in the abstract in question.

 

[zengrifter]

I found this on the blackjack-student website and found it interesting.

There can be little doubt that gambling, both for business and pleasure, is a high adrenaline, and often, addictive pursuit. Gamblings addictive qualities account for the fact that it can produce scientifically recorded highs, (high levels of serotonin release). Many psychologists have theorised and debated over the altered states of consciousness that gambling produces. It is only Blackjack however, that gives a player the additional sensation of being in control of their own destiny. It has been shown that less than 1% of the gambling public actually beats the casino in the long run. This would support the claim made by the vast majority of casino visitors that they play Blackjack merely for the fun of it and not necessarily to make money. Others say that mere participation, whether they are winning or losing, makes them feel alive. If feeling alive is measured by a players sense of emotional arousal, then Blackjack cannot help but fit the bill. Hope, excitement, power, euphoria, despair, frustration and anger are but a few of the emotions that can be summoned on the turn of a card. When a player wins, their self-esteem rises, as they believe (rightly or wrongly,) that their success came from their courage to risk, and their skill in making the right decision. When a player loses they often associate their loss with other problems they may be experiencing. In either case the player feels involved. To them, the emotions that Blackjack brings forth (even the negative ones,) offer a more interesting alternative to the humdrum boredom of day-to-day existence. The professional Blackjack player is aware of the powerful lure that these altered states of consciousness have on both mind, and on their ability to play dispassionately and objectively. They develop a game plan and never make the fatal mistake of diverging from it. Once they stray from the path, instead of them controlling the game, the game controls them and they have lost. The professional Blackjack player will consistently and vigilantly remind themselves that they are there to make money, and not just to have fun in these lavish fantasy environments so generously provided by the casinos.

Yes, absolutely. Gambling creates an altered state, which can give rise to addictive behavior.
This is why new counters are advised to adhere to the same "buddy rule" as scuba divers - in case "gambling narcosis" strikes.

It can be a highly positive "flow" state, too, which is a quasi-spiritual state. zg

Flow (psychology) From Wikipedia
Flow is the mental state of operation in which the person is fully immersed in what he or she is doing by a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and success in the process of the activity. Proposed by positive psychologistMihály Csíkszentmihályi, the concept has been widely referenced across a variety of fields.[1] Colloquial terms for this or similar mental states include: to be on the ball, in the zone, or in the groove.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology))
​

 

[InPlay]

I love the flow of cards and life.


Five Universal Guidelines to Know and Accept


1) Be careful what you ask for because you’ll get it in spades.

If you spend a lot of time focusing on something, you a sure to manifest that type of experience. Whether it is a good experience or a bad one depends on your mindset. Thinking about having a million dollars probably won’t bring you a million dollars, but it will bring you a lot of unhappiness. Whereas thinking about giving love can help you make friends, which in turn can make you the richest person in the world if you consider friendship a valuable commodity.



2) **** Happens.

Not everything works out the way we want it to. Sometimes you don’t get that A+, or your lover doesn’t have time to fawn over you because of work. You can either create a lot of drama that gets you nowhere or you can act constructively and find solutions to why you feel shitty in the first place. If you didn’t get an A+, try to study in a different way that will help you get a better grade. If your partner isn’t paying attention to you, do something to occupy yourself. Don’t just sit there waiting for them to find time for you. Live your life in try to figure out what you need to do differently to find success.



3) Truth is in the eye of the beholder.

One thing that we all share in common with each other is that we all share different experiences. What is good for me, him, and her, may not be good for she, he, and it. In other words, recognize that we all have different feelings, emotions, and beliefs that affect the way we see and interact with the world. If you really want to have honest communication with people, make sure to try to understand who they are and what has made them that way.



4) What goes around comes around.

We attract those like us and we attract situations based on our past actions. If you are positive and inspired, you will meet people of the same headspace. If you are ghetto and violent, you will find thugs and killers everywhere you look. There is credence to doing onto others as you would have them do onto you. If you give respect, you get it. If you act like a bitch, sometimes you’re going to get smacked like one. Just remember that every action has an equal and relative reaction in everything you do.



5) Life waits for no one.

The human experience is filled with constant change. Better to know this than to try to hide from it. If you can flow with the moment and the tasks at hand, you can take advantage of situations where many will not. Don’t get overly attached to things because everything fades and disappears at some point. There is nothing wrong with this process. Denying life’s impermanence is what causes pain and keeps you stuck repeating patterns. Let go and move on.

 

[Diver]

ZG's right again

The parallels with scuba diving are indeed striking:

Requires mastery of a skill set-technical, scientific, physical, mental.
Requires mental focus in a highly stimulating, changing environment.
Need to conserve resources (compressed air).
Important to have a plan and follow it.
Fear and/or panic will surface at some point and must be managed or the consequences can be dire.
Easy to get carried away with the pleasure of the experience and lose focus on key details.
Newbies underestimate the difficulty of making a living at it.
In both communities there are plenty of adepts who are kind enough to share their wisdom with those just getting started (but they often keep some choice spots to themselves since overcrowding will eventually ruin it)

 

[zengrifter]

The parallels with scuba diving are indeed striking:

Requires mastery of a skill set-technical, scientific, physical, mental.
Requires mental focus in a highly stimulating, changing environment.
Need to conserve resources (compressed air).
Important to have a plan and follow it.
Fear and/or panic will surface at some point and must be managed or the consequences can be dire.
Easy to get carried away with the pleasure of the experience and lose focus on key details.
Newbies underestimate the difficulty of making a living at it.
In both communities there are plenty of adepts who are kind enough to share their wisdom with those just getting started (but they often keep some choice spots to themselves since overcrowding will eventually ruin it)

And don't forget 'nitrogen narcosis' zg

 

[Diver]

Indeed

And don't forget 'nitrogen narcosis' zg

There are studies that show divers start to lose their navigational skills at modest depths due to narcosis long before they become obviously impaired at more extreme depths.

 

[zengrifter]

There are studies that show divers start to lose their navigational skills at modest depths due to narcosis long before they become obviously impaired at more extreme depths.

EXACTLY. "Gambling narcosis," a HIGH that I love. zg