BS after 2 cards

[Stylee]

Most of the books I have read mention that BS is for the first 2 cards, and that it varies after you take a couple hits. By how much does BS change after hitting and what is a good source to learn about strategy after the first 2 cards?

 

[shadroch]

Blackjack Bluebook 2 has a good discussion on this. There isn't much change. Only a few hands come to mind. Multi card 16s ,for example.
The author of BB2 is a frequent contributor here. You might want to PM him the question . His forum name is Renzey.

 

[Stylee]

Yeah that's actually what got me thinking about it. Just didn't know if there were any other hands like that. But I figured BS wouldn't change much. If and when it does though, does the why and when come more from information gathered while counting?

 

[BJinNJ]

That's why you count...

then you make changes to BS according to the indices for
the count system you're using.

BJinNJ

 

[callipygian]

By how much does BS change after hitting and what is a good source to learn about strategy after the first 2 cards?

A lot, since you can't double, split, or surrender. :grin:

But seriously, in a shoe game, being dealt 9-3-3 vs. dealer 10 is no different from seeing an extra 3 in a previous hand and being dealt 9-6 vs. dealer 10. You alter your BS based on the count you see.

Single-deck and double-deck might have some composition-dependent strategy changes.

 

[Guynoire]

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/appendix3c.html

 

[Stylee]

But seriously, in a shoe game, being dealt 9-3-3 vs. dealer 10 is no different from seeing an extra 3 in a previous hand and being dealt 9-6 vs. dealer 10. You alter your BS based on the count you see.

That's what I was thinking. I can stop worrying about that until I really get into counting. Thanks for the confirmation.

 

[aslan]

A lot, since you can't double, split, or surrender. :grin:

But seriously, in a shoe game, being dealt 9-3-3 vs. dealer 10 is no different from seeing an extra 3 in a previous hand and being dealt 9-6 vs. dealer 10. You alter your BS based on the count you see.

Single-deck and double-deck might have some composition-dependent strategy changes.

If you started with a 3, 4, and then drew a 2, 2, 2, A, A, A, wouldn't you think twice before taking that last hit? With five or more cards, I invariably stand at 16, but I don't know the correct play.

 

[moo321]

If you started with a 3, 4, and then drew a 2, 2, 2, A, A, A, wouldn't you think twice before taking that last hit? With five or more cards, I invariably stand at 16, but I don't know the correct play.

Depends on the count.

 

[aslan]

Depends on the count.

For sure. If it's a positive count, you wouldn't be hitting 16 regardless. It also seems it would depend on how many decks. 222AAA is not very common in single deck, but can occur much more frequently in eight deck.

 

[Kasi]

If you started with a 3, 4, and then drew a 2, 2, 2, A, A, A, wouldn't you think twice before taking that last hit? With five or more cards, I invariably stand at 16, but I don't know the correct play.

Well, if you're a BS player and that BS said always hit 16 vs 10 I'd guess you hit. If you're a BS player who maybe refined the basic BS to "always stand on 16 vs 10 when your 16 is 3 or more cards" (which might be the thing to do)then you are still following BS, just a different one, lol.

 

[moo321]

For sure. If it's a positive count, you wouldn't be hitting 16 regardless. It also seems it would depend on how many decks. 222AAA is not very common in single deck, but can occur much more frequently in eight deck.

If it's single deck, I'm actually going to hit, because the important cards (5 and 4) are still in the deck.

 

[aslan]

If it's single deck, I'm actually going to hit, because the important cards (5 and 4) are still in the deck.

You're assuming that only 43222AAA have been dealt so far. And don't forget that the preferred play in a positive count with a 16 vs a dealer upcard 10 is to stand.

 

[Brock Windsor]

If it's single deck, I'm actually going to hit, because the important cards (5 and 4) are still in the deck.

There are still 32 bust cards left in that deck with 44 remaining cards...still hit? I'm going to hope the dealer has one of those 5's as a down card.
BW

 

[aslan]

Well, if you're a BS player and that BS said always hit 16 vs 10 I'd guess you hit. If you're a BS player who maybe refined the basic BS to "always stand on 16 vs 10 when your 16 is 3 or more cards" (which might be the thing to do)then you are still following BS, just a different one, lol.

Is that a legitimate AP play, Kasi? Seems to me, I've seen it here in the forum before and it depends on what the three cards are. Some three cards call for a stand, and some three cards call for a hit. I just don't remember which is which. lol Anyway, the advantage is probably negligible.

 

[sagefr0g]

Is that a legitimate AP play, Kasi? Seems to me, I've seen it here in the forum before and it depends on what the three cards are. Some three cards call for a stand, and some three cards call for a hit. I just don't remember which is which. lol Anyway, the advantage is probably negligible.

it's legit. i think the idea here is like what Renzey describes in Blackjack Bluebook II where in if one is going to do these sort of things one must prioritize these actions. such as.....
counting and making basic strategy departures according to a known matrice has priority over say table composition dependent basic strategy departure or maybe a betting decision. like say your counting babies comming out for a round or what ever i guess.
which might have priority over hand composition dependent basic strategy. and then you have say a game specific basic strategy a lower priority.
and then maybe some generic one size fits all basic strategy.
that's sort of the idea. i guess i got it mostly right.
then you got the kind of basic strategy k_c depicts with his software tdc blackjack game and probability computer where you have total dependent expected values for any combination of player and dealer cards and any shoe state a total dependent basic strategy so to speak.
i guess it can be as complicated or as simple as you want lol.
the 16vs 10 hand is such a borderline call it lends it's self well to this sort of stuff.

 

[Kasi]

Is that a legitimate AP play, Kasi? Seems to me, I've seen it here in the forum before and it depends on what the three cards are. Some three cards call for a stand, and some three cards call for a hit. I just don't remember which is which. lol Anyway, the advantage is probably negligible.

The advantage is definitely negligible, and then some, but I think if you stood on all 3 card 16's vs 10, at least off the top of the shoe, it averages out that's better than still hitting all 3-card 16's vs 10. Not sure how true this over all number of decks but I think true for 8 decks.

Guess a little better would be learn which 3-card hands are hit or stand if you play BS lol.