cammo when taking insurance?

[Stealth]

Glad I found you guys. It's kind of a lonely world being a counter.

Do you guys notice how we can sometimes play for hours and the count hasn't yet reach a point high enough to warrant taking insurance each time the dealer shows an ace? By this time the pit crew has already determined that we are a decent player and also smart enough not to take insurance. Then finally after grinding away a what seems to be an endless set of negitive shoes, a "monster count". So we start chunking the out the chips and there it comes; a hard 16 and the dealer is showing ace. My point is that taking ins. while having a hand of 19 or 20 looks quite natural but 16! and tossing out a black chip while the boss is watching? It makes me real uncomfy especially when it usually works. Even the players make comments about why I took ins. on a 16. I sometimes head for the doors after that happens. Any comments on how to smooth over and cammo the situation?

 

[Ed Tice]

This is not really a cammo suggestion but if you can learn to keep the insurance side-count as described by Stanford Wong in Professional Blackjack (I can't do it although I practice at it all the time, so eventually I'll have to pick up the skill), you'll find yourself making some insurance bets in negative shoes sometimes. Plus you might be able to identify times when insurance is a marginal bet and go ahead and make it if your EV allows for this without killing your profits.

Ed

 

[Sonny]

A few ideas for cammo:

If the dealer has been getting a lot of blackjacks lately: "With the streak you're having, I'd be crazy NOT to take insurance."

If the dealer hasn't gotten any lately: "You haven't had any in a while, so you're due."

With a big bet out: "I'm not going to risk it with this much money on the table. I'd better play it safe."

Depending on what type of act you are using, you should be able to think of variations that fit your style. Also, don't wory about explaining yourself to the other players. They don't need to know anything. Even the bosses won't be around the whole time, and the eye-in-the-sky can't hear you anyway. The only person you really need to worry about most of the time is the dealer, and if you chose to play with a good one you don't even need to worry about that!

-Sonny-

 

[The Mayor]

This is a very tough question ... and on a LSR game it can look even worse. You insure your 16 against the dealer's A, lose the insurance, then surrender! Talk about heat generating moves!

I don't have a good answer for this ... the one I usually use is that I like to insure my hand whenever I make a big bet, because that's when it really matters. But I doubt this flies very far.

--Mayor

 

[Ed Tice]

Nobody liked my advice above (but I'm still working on being able to do it!)

Speaking of which, isn't this an opportunity to get some "hand interaction"?

I suppose it doesn't help your cammo, but if you are going to leave the table afterwards anyway, why not ask everybody else at the table to put up an insurance bet for you at their spots? Use one of the lines above and see how many spots you can fill with insurance! (Don't exceed your Kelly betting criteria, though). After all, if we all agree that its a heat generating move and you're going to leave the table anyway, why not get some money out there?

Ever since this thread came up, I've been trying to calculate just how much additional EV you could get this way. 1/13 hands, on average, lead to an insurance situation. But a higher percentage when the TC is high.

At a crowded table, could you flat-bet through (using full play indices) but get enough $ on the table just with insurance hand interaction? Not that I'm advocating this strategy. I am just very interested in the mathematics of the game and always looking for crazy, alternative strategies!

But I guess crazy alternative strategies might have some value in that if you mix them in with your normal counting techniques on a per-shuffle basis, it may turn down the heat (or it may crank it up!). But hey, worth a shot!

Ed

 

[learning to count]

Hey stealth the book says take insurance at a plus 3 TC in a six deck game. Plus 1 or better TC at single deck. So take it. If your nervous then take it only on big bets. Same with surrender ya gotta take it when the count says so. Id ont believ in camo as much as I do in time in at play and being aware of your surrounding environment. I was watching a friend play Blackjack recently. This friend is a world class pro. He plays masterfully. He is aware of everything arpound him. The count, the bet spread, the dealer, the ploppy infestations, the pit crew and the suits on the floor. He wins! He rarely gets caught. His big tip was keep your play short on single deck and wong in on crowded tables when you have the advantage. It sounds complex AND IT IS!!!!! So keep perfecting your game! LTC