casino cheating, ie loaded deck, experience?

[josh3623]

I originally posted this as a response to mr fr0g's question about length of time w/o seeing a + count and thought it would be a good topic.
Question: What forms of cheating have any players actually experienced first hand. Describe the situation and what to look for. These are some of the things I have seen in WA.

I play shoe games, being in an unregulated state... and around here the cards are guaranteed to be stacked, so be sure to find a table that has action, and avoid playing head on against the dealer unless you know the casino well. but I have gone the entire night without seeing a positive true count of +2, more than once. Ever see all the aces in the 8 deck shoe come out over 5 hands, and now 10s, then all the tens start coming? Hows that for stacked. The lady sitting next to me split 3 aces, but couldn't split the last one cause of a 3 split limit, Ouch! Then I got three, there were six of us at the table, two shoes, and sets of decks per table(alternating) and both of them were like this. I left the table, feeling lucky to only be down $15,
I have also seen casinos up here in WA where it is impossible to get a negative count, and the dealer always seems to draw a 5 or 6 card 20. Gee Whiz, anybody know why this might be? One casino in particular(and, dense as I am, it took me a few trips to figure it out) By the third deck the running count was +20 or +30, every time, It was like a dream come true, except for one minor problem, I was losing badly, what a nightmare. Finally it hit me what was wrong, and on a whim I decided to count the spanish 21 tables for comparison, and sure enough... same phenomena, except not as bad.
My theory is that they were not just taking out ten values out but they were actually replacing them with low cards(probably 4s and 5s, or just 5s)
Ever seen this before?
Share any other experiences you have had with casino or dealer scams.

Thanks
Josh

 

[Sonny]

I play shoe games, being in an unregulated state... and around here the cards are guaranteed to be stacked

The games in WA are regulated by the Washington State Gambling Commision:

http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/

A friend of mine used to be an auditor there. I don't know how well the games are regulated but their money is very closely watched by the government.

Luckily I have never had such experiences at a casino. I tend to backcount which keeps me away from negative shoes and shuffle track which keeps the bad cards out of play. I've also never played in WA, but here's a link to an old discussion:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?t=278

-Sonny-

 

[ihate17]

Shorting the shoe

Years ago in the Chech Republic, casinos would remove some aces and faces and replace them with a few extra 5's or 6's. So you would tend to get positive count after positive count.
Also, 6 or so years ago, a California Indian casino was accused of doing this also. So that might explain all those positive counts.

Question: Do they spread the cards when bringing in new cards? Casinos spread the cards in front of players to show the players that they are using complete decks.

ihate17

 

[jimpenn]

Non-plugging cut cards

I experienced this at Don Barten's Majestic Star in Indiana. No Plugging cut cards. In addition, the use of Shills. I don't mind a shill, but I don't appreciate it if they talk up the game orcut the cards. I have had two experiences with his bullshit...Majestic Star, Indiana and Fitzgeralds..D/T Vegas. I played the Star last month and only once seen a positive 6D twice and it only lasted for two rounds. I don't know if he replaces high cards with low, but I even backcounted for an hour (two tables) and seen only three positive shoes after two decks twice.(6D) One true AP explained to me what would happen if I asked for a countdown and now know it would be useless and covered up if agreed. I don't know the additional casinos he owns, but before I play any in the future I will always google ownership or bj21.com for house rules and player comments. That is in addition to this site which I consider truely professional.

Best, jp

 

[Canceler]

Backwards

I don't know if he replaces high cards with low, but I even backcounted for an hour (two tables) and seen only three positive shoes after two decks twice.(6D)

Actually, if the count doesn't rise it means you are seeing high cards. If the count does rise, but you never see the high cards, that might be cause for suspicion.

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Actually, if the count doesn't rise it means you are seeing high cards. If the count does rise, but you never see the high cards, that might be cause for suspicion.

Exactly. I've had some experiences on gambling-only cruise ships in the NYC area that were very suspicious. No regulation or recourse whatsoever.