Count Teams?

[Dre]

Hey everyone,

I am new to counting and am admitting to having read zero books on the topic (but Im going to be picking up a few and studying them religiously over the holiday). I am also only 21 so please excuse any ignorance i may exude in this post.

If I get a team of 3 (including myself): 1 guy does a hi-lo count, another guy does shuffle tracking, and a third guy does this count (for determinig when to take insurance)(http://www.blackjackmagazine.com/ManageArticle.asp?C=160&A=7), would we not have a nice advantage and a good opportunity at winning some nice cash over our break (we're all still in college)? Of course this is assuming that we could communicate with each other without getting guff from pitbulls...but having read an earlier post someone said that AC doesnt care about/doesnt watch red chip bettors, so my confidence level is somewhat raised. I got the idea from that book "bringing down the house" about those MIT students. anyway i wanted to know if this is a ludicrous dream or an untapped reality.

I tried to read though all the posts so as not to repeat anything. I appreciate all of your expertise and look forward to what you all have to say on this topic of having teams.

-Dre

 

[Rob McGarvey]

Hey Dr. Dre, whatup? Your plan will work but will not give you the edge MIT has. Your Jr. Mafia is all sitting at the same table which limits you. MIT, Hyland, Uston all have many tables covered. Then you need to carry a heavy bankroll from table to table, not sit and wait for it to show up at one table. With the count only getting into the Benjie zone x% of the time, you have to have many tables covered with ya playaz, then drop the bomb on them when day hot.

Now, I can offer you and your two team mates a shot at some good cash with my online team. You roll your bank through a group of casinos we play at and pick up all the bonus money, and I split the profits from the money the casino offers me to bring new players in. You get to double dip. Once you pull that off I can get you into the Internet Blackjack Mafia (IBM) where we are making even bigger profits from....well, playing. The IBM is bigger than the MIT, or the Hyland team is, and we have greater profit potential. Get your basic strategy down, and a NETeller account, and give me a shout if you are interested.

[email protected]

 

[learning to count]

For some reason this sounds like an ad????

McGarvey does make money...for himself at least. Beware kid beware! Kid you need read some more and learn to count. Give your self some time in the pits and get some experience. If you can get get two close associates to learn along with you and start play with you, you will develop a team environment. Istarted with my two cousins Panthercounter and chicago slim and we have a ncie thing going. After you become good then start reading about team play and its structure:finance, count strategy, play strategy, casino comportment, team attack strategies etc. etc.. As far as Rob goes well thats a whole other world in cyber land.

 

[The Mayor]

First of all, don't set foot in a casino until you have read a decent book (or two).

Then take it slowly, read a lot, and use your play and casino experience in tandem with your study to improve all aspects of your play. You must get a lot of experience with the counts or betting systems you want to use before considering a team.

As far as your idea, hi-lo and shuffle-tracking do not work well together, and you should not even consider it. The shuffle-tracker may cut the rich slug to the top, so the best betting opportunities are happening in severely negative counts, the hi-lo player is making min bets, the tracker is very happy.

The insurance side count works well for the hi-lo player, but the shuffle-tracker will have an entirely different way of playing insurance.

You're mixing ideas -- danger danger danger.

--Mayor

 

[Sonny]

Not this semester, at least.

> If I get a team of 3 (including myself): 1 guy does a hi-lo count, another
> guy does shuffle tracking, and a third guy does this count (for determinig
> when to take insurance), would we not have a nice advantage and a good
> opportunity at winning some nice cash over our break (we're all still in
> college)?

First of all, Like Rob said, you will all be playing at the same table. You would be making more money if you all used hi-lo and played at different tables. Also, you would all be raising and lowering your bets in unison. This will be very obvious to anyone watching. Using the "Big Player" approach (read up on Ken Uston for more info on this. He covers it MUCH better than the MIT team) would be a better plan, if you can pull it off.

Secondly, are you planning to do this on Xmas break? If so, then your plan is going to fail. Here's why:

> I am new to counting and am admitting to having read zero books on the topic
> (but Im going to be picking up a few and studying them religiously over the
> holiday).

I'm guessing that your buddies are also new to the game. The problem is this: you CANNOT learn to count cards in a few weeks and expect to play well on a team. It could take several months before you are comfortable counting cards in a casino environment. On top of that you are trying to learn signals and team plays as well. If you are all newbies you will be struggling to keep the count during your first few sessions, and you will not be fast enough to give signals or read signals from other players. You will probably misread a few signals as well. All these things will corrupt your edge. I won't even mention the difficulties of trying to learn shuffle-tracking.

Your best plan is to each learn the hi-lo. Practice together, play together, and take a few practice trips to a casino before you start any dreams of team play. You may find that your buddies aren't willing to put in the effort to learn to count properly. This is important to know BEFORE you start a team. If you want to start a team, do it AFTER you are all competent counters. Until then, just read everything you can and practice, practice, practice. Once you and your buddies can all play alone in a casino you can start to work on your team tactics...maybe next semester.

-Sonny-

P.S.- I've been playing for three years now, and I'm still perfecting my solo playing. I't doesn't happen overnight.

 

[Rob McGarvey]

What's This?

"McGarvey does make money...for himself at least. Beware kid beware!"

I really don't know what your problem with me is LTC, but it is becoming obvious to me that you have one. I would like to get that out in the open, possibly in the non BJ area, or by private email, because I think your pot shots are uncalled for. We all make $$ on my team. You make it look like I stiffed you or something. I'll spell it out for everyone using ONE casino.

I send Dre's Team to one casino. I have several more available, but let's just go slow for now. We all make $300. All for knowing basic strategy.

"Kid you need read some more and learn to count. Give your self some time in the pits and get some experience. If you can get get two close associates to learn along with you and start play with you, you will develop a team environment. Istarted with my two cousins Panthercounter and chicago slim and we have a ncie thing going. After you become good then start reading about team play and its structure:finance, count strategy, play strategy, casino comportment, team attack strategies etc. etc.."

All good advice. Tell him what your team EV and SD is.

"As far as Rob goes well thats a whole other world in cyber land."

You are right. The biggest advantage is available online. The smallest standard deviation is available online. I am presenting to Dre's team an opportunity of a life time. No counting, gas expenses, etc, and you try to turn him away from that. Why? Because you hate to see me make money so much that you will throw a wrench into the gears? I'd really like to know. All I can say to you LTC is that if by chance you have convinced Dre or anyone else for that matter to avoid playing on my team, you have cost them, and myself, a lot of money. All online casino money. The "enemies" money. I think your selfish interests are involved here LTC. If you are running a similar team, I can understand that, and you should say that you are. If not, then you disappoint me.

We are actually going to step into something with an advantage of a minimum of 12.5% to a maximum of 65%, with an average of 35% for the most part, with an unlimited potential. By chosing different forks in the road, we can discover forks that no one has ever seen before, and learn how to get the most out of them.........together.

 

[The Mayor]

Re: What's This?

"The biggest advantage is available online. The smallest standard deviation is available online"

This is false. Coupon play is obviously better on both counts. There are other much better alternatives to online play. However, if you want a day job as an advantage player from home, then nothing beats online advantage play for about $50/hour low SD income.

--Mayor

 

[Rob McGarvey]

Re: What's This? *PIC*

I don't think so from where I sit. If my team has an advantage of over 25% (not BJ) and we can play $1 hands where your table min for your coupons is what, $25? I should be correct. I don't know the perameters of your coupon, but do know that the team does not have swings like you have in your onland blackjack career Mayor. See below:

Is that record with or without coupons Elly? Tell the truth now! smile You should post a time frame and $ amounts or unit amounts on this. Use different colors for coupie play, and non coupie play.

 

[Dre]

Re: Not this semester, at least.

Hey,
Thanks for the input guys, i appreciate it.

Sonny, nah i wasnt going to try it over break. i know it takes months of practice i think i read somewhere you should practice for a bare minimum of 1 hour a day for 3 months. i want to do this starting late july (im trying to be realistic)

as far as not stepping in a casino before reading a book goes, i would completely agree...but i definitely have gone about 6 or 7 times since turning 21 (late may of this year). i only lost once, just playing basic strategy. i was pretty lucky. i know it was stupid to do but hey, we all gotta start somewhere.

thanks again for your input and ill talk to my buddies about the bonus sign up gig, though we might be too amateur for you and your team rob!

take it easy,
Dre

 

[The Mayor]

Re: What's This?

Rob, you are not getting a 25% edge.

If a person deposits $100 to get a $100 match, then has to push the money through the system 10x to withdraw, that's $2000 worth of action. You lose .5% because of the house edge, that's $10, so you make $90 on your $2000 worth of action. To me that sounds like a 4.5% edge. I know this varies, but you will rarely see an edge above 5% with online play.

A coupon player playing match play on Roulette with a $10 match, who bets on a color (even money) has a 18/38 chance of winning $20 and a 20/38 chance of losing $10, for an EV of

(18/38)*20 + (20/38)(-10) = 9.47 - 5.26 = $4.21 on the $10 bet. That's 42% Rob.

--Mayor

 

[Rob McGarvey]

Re: What's This? *PIC*

"Rob, you are not getting a 25% edge. If a person deposits $100 to get a $100 match, then has to push the money through the system 10x to withdraw, that's $2000 worth of action. You lose .5% because of the house edge, that's $10, so you make $90 on your $2000 worth of action. To me that sounds like a 4.5% edge. I know this varies, but you will rarely see an edge above 5% with online play."

Right, with a 90% ROI. You are talking blackjack, and I am talking sports and sports referral fees, something I am sure you do not have a grasp of yet. There are some great opptys online, like a sticky BJ match play where you can lose $100 or win $300, $450 with a BJ. 4x action. Tell me what advantage that gives you. When you lose they come at you with something better, so losing is not always losing.

"A coupon player playing match play on Roulette with a $10 match, who bets on a color (even money) has a 18/38 chance of winning $20 and a 20/38 chance of losing $10, for an EV of

(18/38)*20 + (20/38)(-10) = 9.47 - 5.26 = $4.21 on the $10 bet. That's 42% Rob.

Yes, I understand this. 42% on one hand. Can you play this coupon all day long? Usually there is one per coupie book. After qualifying for a $500 match play at certain online casinos, playing roulie is the way to convert it to cash, better than the 50% from BJ playing hand after hand after hand. Spread your 500 on all numbers and spin to win 35/37 (Euro) back.

Bottom line: online is better than onland IMO, and easier to get to, espec for someone facing AC rules like Dre is. You live close to LV, which includes a very small percentage of people on this planet.

NOW: back to that chart of yours Mayor. Coupie or no coupie? Units or dollars? A chart with no reference marks is not much of a chart.

 

[learning to count]

Rob you of all people should not take my ....

ribbing so personally. I'm sorry if I touched a nerve. You make money for everyone you deal with! I will calm down from now on. I enjoy your posts and I read your and have learned from your wisdom. I extend the hand of friendship to you.

 

[Rob McGarvey]

U were Joking? *PIC*

"McGarvey does make money...for himself at least. Beware kid beware!"
"As far as Rob goes well thats a whole other world in cyber land."

Hey, I can take a joke and forgive you, but these comments are very to the point. I can hack not making a few hundred because you may have scared this guy off, but what about him? About his buddies? A few hundred dollars can make a world of difference to these guys in school. Please think about what you are going to type before you type it. Your "jokes" towards me can hurt a lot of people.

 

[learning to count]

Re: U were Joking?

Hey sorry but you were advertising! And to do that to a virgin is just not right. Tell the kid to meet some where else and explain your strategies. So if ya cant accept my apology well the all I can say is that I misjudged the affect of my ribbing. I will not bother you any more.

 

[The Mayor]

Re: What's This?

>NOW: back to that chart of yours Mayor. Coupie or no coupie?

Straight blackjack -- no coupons.

>Units or dollars?

Yes.

> A chart with no reference marks is not much of a chart.

True, but it all you're going to get.

Each mark denote's one full day of play at the BJ tables. About 2 years worth of my play are there -- I have not played a full day of BJ in about a year.

--Mayor

 

[Rob McGarvey]

Webbles

>NOW: back to that chart of yours Mayor. Coupie or no coupie?
Straight blackjack -- no coupons.

Good for you! Why did you keep your coupie play separate from this chart?

>Units or dollars?
Yes.

Okay.......

> A chart with no reference marks is not much of a chart.
True, but it all you're going to get.

Exactly as I thought. Just keeping you...........honest?

Each mark denote's one full day of play at the BJ tables. About 2 years worth of my play are there -- I have not played a full day of BJ in about a year.

98 full 8 hour days? So are you saying when you play an hour you add that to 7 more, then make a mark? Are you saying that you haven't keep this chart up to date over the last year, or that you only mark full days?

Now imagine a line that goes almost str8 up. Actually at around 81 degrees. No $ figures, no % of total bankroll, no time frames, just a nice smoooooooth line that stretches into the sky...........

 

[Rob McGarvey]

Peace in the Valley

"Hey sorry but you were advertising! And to do that to a virgin is just not right."

I answered his questions and gave him another option to make solid money. I would think that anyone would do that if they had the opportunities I have. I have players on my team that invite their family members to join them doing what we do. Treating this guy like family is not like raping a virgin with a poster panel sign.

"Tell the kid to meet some where else and explain your strategies."

I did! Go read the message, my email address is right there.

"So if ya cant accept my apology well the all I can say is that I misjudged the affect of my ribbing. I will not bother you any more."

I forgave you yesterday, but I did want you to see what kind of damage you were doing to others, including yourself, and that is why I posted what I did. Don't say you won't bother me. I value your friendship and your input. And please, no more jumping from the top rope swinging a metal chair! ;>

 

[ChumashGaucho]

I meant to ask you this over the Hold'em table Mayor, but I guess you had an incident. Sorry about that.

Do you think a team could operate, in a certain Central Coast indian casino, repeatedly, if they are already known by Casino staff as regular customers?