At the casino I frequent, comps are given out only as long as you apply for a "comp card." However, the application for that card asks for one's name, address, etc., and all sorts of things one would not give to a casino. How do most counters get comps while counting without giving away their real names? Does everyone have a fake name and ID?
counting and comps
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Rob McGarvey
Well-Known Member
get the card and IF they catch onto you, don't use it after that. Just act like everyone else does and they will be less suspicious of you.
I haven't been doing this long enough to know what one should do. But I get players cards everyplace I play using my real name and take advantage of whatever comps I can get. Maybe one day I will look back and think it was a mistake, but over the last 8 months I've had no problems.
Abraham de Moivre
Well-Known Member
Remember, just because somebody asks for something, doesn't mean you have to give it.
Some answers to consider.
Phone number? None of your damm business, I hate telemarketers and people calling me.
Drivers License Number/License Plate? I don't drive, my friends bring me, or I take the bus, or grab a cab.
Address? Give them any old non-existent address. The only reason they ask for this is so they can mail you offers. If the mail is undeliverable, the marketing dept. will remove you from the mailing list, but they aren't going to notify the pit or cut off your comps or anything. If you give them a lot of action, you might consider setting up a post office box at a Mailboxes R Us place. Some of the mail offers are for free money, etc., and you might want to get them.
Need an ID? You might try all the old underage drinking tricks. Claim you forgot your ID and see if they will accept the form anyways. Use your long lost cousin's ID who never goes to casinos anyways. Etc., Etc.
Of course, like SAMMY says ... if you aren't planning on making a full time career of it, or must depend on a large portion of your income from it, just give them your real name and forget about it.
Some answers to consider.
Phone number? None of your damm business, I hate telemarketers and people calling me.
Drivers License Number/License Plate? I don't drive, my friends bring me, or I take the bus, or grab a cab.
Address? Give them any old non-existent address. The only reason they ask for this is so they can mail you offers. If the mail is undeliverable, the marketing dept. will remove you from the mailing list, but they aren't going to notify the pit or cut off your comps or anything. If you give them a lot of action, you might consider setting up a post office box at a Mailboxes R Us place. Some of the mail offers are for free money, etc., and you might want to get them.
Need an ID? You might try all the old underage drinking tricks. Claim you forgot your ID and see if they will accept the form anyways. Use your long lost cousin's ID who never goes to casinos anyways. Etc., Etc.
Of course, like SAMMY says ... if you aren't planning on making a full time career of it, or must depend on a large portion of your income from it, just give them your real name and forget about it.
Adam N. Subtractum
Well-Known Member
Some good info...
Abe made some very good points, and you can also find some good info on the subject by doing some searches through zg's plethora of posts, archived throughout the web.
ANS
Abe made some very good points, and you can also find some good info on the subject by doing some searches through zg's plethora of posts, archived throughout the web.
ANS
learning to count
Well-Known Member
Re: Some good info...
I am half way through Comp City by Max Rubin. $15. If you need to understand comps this is the bible. If you are making a living from the casinos then it is good to get comps. If you are a rec player it is good still. If you are hurting the casino's bottom line...and only a small percentage of pros are still doing it...less than 20 in the world. Then the false ID's and disguises come into play. And if you dont need free food here or a free room there or a silk jacket with that casinos name on it forego the card and keep making money. I found when I drop a grand its good for them to notice and pad my account. I know I will be back.
I am half way through Comp City by Max Rubin. $15. If you need to understand comps this is the bible. If you are making a living from the casinos then it is good to get comps. If you are a rec player it is good still. If you are hurting the casino's bottom line...and only a small percentage of pros are still doing it...less than 20 in the world. Then the false ID's and disguises come into play. And if you dont need free food here or a free room there or a silk jacket with that casinos name on it forego the card and keep making money. I found when I drop a grand its good for them to notice and pad my account. I know I will be back.
Comp City
I thought that book was a good read with alot of great ideas. I have also thought about how you could incorporate some of those ideas into an act. In other words, try to come across as a novice "Comp Counter" (Max's term) instead of a card counter. One idea would be to purposely call the PC over when the count jumps way up, ask him what the casino's best restaurant is as you are very obviously putting out your max bet and then immediately ask how long you need to play with that average bet to get a dinner.
My one complaint is that he is inconsistent in his calculation of EV. He very studiously calculates the EV of a given level of play and compares that to the comp value, but then he ignores the cost of tips and gifts from the EV cost (even though he recommends that you tip and give gifts). Obviously, the EV loss on a tip is 100% of the tip, and in alot of cases this may double the EV from playing. In other words, if you are an aspiring "comp counter" playing $25 per hand and managing to slow the game down to 30 hands an hour with perfect BS, you are correctly assuming that the EV loss from your play is $3.75 per hour. However, if you are also following Max's advice to tip a $5 chip per hour when you are winning (roughly 1/2 of the time), your real EV is more like $6.25 per hour. I don't have a problem with him advising people to tip, but he should include that in the calculation of your "cost" to get comps.
Note that in my example, your comp value may still be greater than your total "cost" since you have managed to convince the pit that you are really averaging $50 per hand at a normal 60 hands per hour rate with a 2% disadvantage, etc.
I thought that book was a good read with alot of great ideas. I have also thought about how you could incorporate some of those ideas into an act. In other words, try to come across as a novice "Comp Counter" (Max's term) instead of a card counter. One idea would be to purposely call the PC over when the count jumps way up, ask him what the casino's best restaurant is as you are very obviously putting out your max bet and then immediately ask how long you need to play with that average bet to get a dinner.
My one complaint is that he is inconsistent in his calculation of EV. He very studiously calculates the EV of a given level of play and compares that to the comp value, but then he ignores the cost of tips and gifts from the EV cost (even though he recommends that you tip and give gifts). Obviously, the EV loss on a tip is 100% of the tip, and in alot of cases this may double the EV from playing. In other words, if you are an aspiring "comp counter" playing $25 per hand and managing to slow the game down to 30 hands an hour with perfect BS, you are correctly assuming that the EV loss from your play is $3.75 per hour. However, if you are also following Max's advice to tip a $5 chip per hour when you are winning (roughly 1/2 of the time), your real EV is more like $6.25 per hour. I don't have a problem with him advising people to tip, but he should include that in the calculation of your "cost" to get comps.
Note that in my example, your comp value may still be greater than your total "cost" since you have managed to convince the pit that you are really averaging $50 per hand at a normal 60 hands per hour rate with a 2% disadvantage, etc.
learning to count
Well-Known Member
Re: Comp City
Your right he does overlook EV (Expected value)and adds even more EL (emphasized loss) with his strategy to play and lose at the the expected vig of the game. He wants the average ploppy to bet large when being watched then lower the bets to a "safe level" and extend your play so that you meet the VIG expectation. He emphasizes a strategy that is the opposite of advantage play. I dont know about you but I have seen positive shoes lose all the way through. Can you imagine if a ploppy with ten grand starts betting black and the pit boss camps out. The book is good because he gives you a look into the world of the casino book keepers and thier strategy to rape the suckers. He also has a great history and the development of the greedy casino business. If your gonna fight the dragon at least know how to fight. On the Travel channel show "suckers bet" he emphasized that he wrote the book for the morons who go to vegas with greed in thier hearts but numbness in thier brains. He gave them a way to get the most out of thier losses.
Your right he does overlook EV (Expected value)and adds even more EL (emphasized loss) with his strategy to play and lose at the the expected vig of the game. He wants the average ploppy to bet large when being watched then lower the bets to a "safe level" and extend your play so that you meet the VIG expectation. He emphasizes a strategy that is the opposite of advantage play. I dont know about you but I have seen positive shoes lose all the way through. Can you imagine if a ploppy with ten grand starts betting black and the pit boss camps out. The book is good because he gives you a look into the world of the casino book keepers and thier strategy to rape the suckers. He also has a great history and the development of the greedy casino business. If your gonna fight the dragon at least know how to fight. On the Travel channel show "suckers bet" he emphasized that he wrote the book for the morons who go to vegas with greed in thier hearts but numbness in thier brains. He gave them a way to get the most out of thier losses.