Craps DC and heat

[rdorange]

Just returned from Biloxi.......
Had a fantastic trip, four days. Played Bj and Craps the whole time.
After all the discussion in the previous threads, I have a new experience!
CRAPS HEAT! No one can convince me that there is nothing to DC. I've practiced like crazy at home. You've seen the posts re-% and such. Well, it would be easier to tell you that I had only THREE rolls this trip where I established a point and then sevened out before making my money back. The rest of the trip I had monster roll after monster roll! The heat was the most interesting thing.
During one session, I shot several times at one table and did great. They opened a second table because it got so crowded. The second table was open and empty. I colored up and went to the second table and was able to start shooting by myself. First roll was going great! Some people joined in and some left the other table and came over after a bit. Not as crowded as the first one though. Second turn came around and I had back to back great rolls. Table is packed again! Several shooters after me say they don't want to follow that turn, and one or two people take short turns, and three shooters just passed. It came back to me pretty fast. Third roll was good also. This is the roll with the heat. The pit boss comes over and whispers to the boxman. I see the boxmans eyes move to me and very fast keep going like he wasn't looking "at" me. The game continues and the pit boss goes to the first table and taps the boxman out. The first table boxman gets up and taps out the boxman at my (second/current) table, They swap and the pit boss swaps with the other boxman so he (the pit boss) can return to the second table. Now with both the new (my original table) box man and the pit boss present, and in the middle of my roll, The boxman, looks at me and says to the stick man, "Check the dice". The stick man pulls the dice from play and gives them to the box man, who takes one, and gives one to the pit boss. They both check and then exchange with each other, and check each one again! As this goes on the stick man is instructed to pour the bowl of remaining dice out and continue the game. I get two new dice, and continue on. The checked dice are shortly returned to the bowl. That is it! They did not say a single thing to me. I still had a long roll or two after that, with no problems. I even startd to joke a lot with the box man. Later the pit boss even checked with me to see if I needed a meal or a room.
I take this as a huge compliment and morale booster!
The biggest part of all this is that I new my best % numbers, and during my rolls was always betting on them.

 

[moo321]

I don't think they had any clue you were controlling. I think they were just checking to make sure you didn't get fake dice in the game, since you were rolling so well.

 

[ChefJJ]

During one session, I shot several times at one table and did great. They opened a second table because it got so crowded. The second table was open and empty. I colored up and went to the second table and was able to start shooting by myself.

Empty table hunting worked out well. Beautiful-sounding trip! I think Moo hit it on the head...they were just checking the legitimacy of the dice probably. If you were getting heat for DC, you'd probably been harrassed a bit more with changing stickmen, dice shoved back at you, continuous holdups in getting the dice back, etc.

This was a topic I was thinking about touching on next on the blog and your comment about heat has prompted me to do it: knowing how to have different set-ups for each set. If you've got two 3s on the top every time you set up the 3V and the box knows what to look for, they MAY give you crap.

Glad to hear that it went well. Any more progress on the practice rig? I'm gonna be working on a smaller version soon.

good luck

 

[rdorange]

If you were getting heat for DC, you'd probably been harrassed a bit more with changing stickmen, dice shoved back at you, continuous holdups in getting the dice back, etc.

I did receive the other things you mentioned. They changed the stick man during every roll almost. I am real aware of this, as I ALWAYS play stick one left or right. The stick men are who I talk to the most. I place hardways bets for the dealers sometimes and always do so by saying, "one each of the hardways and piggy back (stick man's name)." I also am not afraid to ask the stick man to return the dice to me on a certain set of numbers depending on what my set will be. I always tell him what he wants to hear, "It will speed the game up". If the stick man is real good, I put him on some of my pass line bets or placed bets. They really seem to appreciate it more than the hardways.

 

[ChefJJ]

I did receive the other things you mentioned. They changed the stick man during every roll almost. I am real aware of this, as I ALWAYS play stick one left or right. The stick men are who I talk to the most. I place hardways bets for the dealers sometimes and always do so by saying, "one each of the hardways and piggy back (stick man's name)." I also am not afraid to ask the stick man to return the dice to me on a certain set of numbers depending on what my set will be. I always tell him what he wants to hear, "It will speed the game up". If the stick man is real good, I put him on some of my pass line bets or placed bets. They really seem to appreciate it more than the hardways.

Stick right is a favorite of mine as well. Did they tone it down on giving you crap when you consistently bet for them?

 

[zengrifter]

No one can convince me that there is nothing to DC. I've practiced like crazy at home.

Tell us all about it - which books, tactics, workshops, teachers you have been following and how to get started. zg

 

[rdorange]

Tokes

Stick right is a favorite of mine as well. Did they tone it down on giving you crap when you consistently bet for them?

It helps some. I do it anyway. Who knows, it may have no effect for me at all. The fact is I appreciate the work some of them put into the game, like:
Passing pre-set dice.
Waiting for me to set the dice.
Letting me miss the back wall sometimes.
Chasing my runnaway chips.
Keeping me reminded if I miss a bet I usually make.
Giving correct pay outs (even though that is their job anway).
Making sure there is good service (drinks etc.)
Laughing at some of my stupid jokes, or just having good conversation.

My favorite way to toke the crew into the games is to put $1 on each of the hardways, and piggy back the dealers (the stickman). I only do this when my point is 4 or 10. For these points, I only use the hardway set. I place bet the even numbers (4,6,8,10). When a hardway hits, I get paid twice, once from my hardway, and also from my place bet. The dealers take their entire win from the piggy backed hardway. When they pay me, I take $1 and press it on their bet. Now I am on that number for 1 unit and the dealers are on for $2. The second time it hits, the dealers get their entire win again. When they pay me, I take another $1 and press it on their bet again. Now I am on that number for 1 unit and the dealers are on for $3. They see the pattern and seem to really appreciate it! Gee I wonder why? Any way, my tokes are small compared to some of the other players.

One time during this last trip, I had the hard 10 pressed up to 3 units, and the hard 6 or 8 pressed up to 2 units. The point was 4 and I made the point with a hard 4. I had to put the 6 or 8 back up once or twice because I made them, but not the hard way. When I have to put the bet back up from a soft hit, I just use $2 from the place bet win.

 

[ChefJJ]

It helps some. I do it anyway. Who knows, it may have no effect for me at all. The fact is I appreciate the work some of them put into the game, like:
Passing pre-set dice.
Waiting for me to set the dice.
Letting me miss the back wall sometimes.
Chasing my runnaway chips.
Keeping me reminded if I miss a bet I usually make.
Giving correct pay outs (even though that is their job anway).
Making sure there is good service (drinks etc.)
Laughing at some of my stupid jokes, or just having good conversation.

My favorite way to toke the crew into the games is to put $1 on each of the hardways, and piggy back the dealers (the stickman). I only do this when my point is 4 or 10. For these points, I only use the hardway set. I place bet the even numbers (4,6,8,10). When a hardway hits, I get paid twice, once from my hardway, and also from my place bet. The dealers take their entire win from the piggy backed hardway. When they pay me, I take $1 and press it on their bet. Now I am on that number for 1 unit and the dealers are on for $2. The second time it hits, the dealers get their entire win again. When they pay me, I take another $1 and press it on their bet again. Now I am on that number for 1 unit and the dealers are on for $3. They see the pattern and seem to really appreciate it! Gee I wonder why? Any way, my tokes are small compared to some of the other players.

One time during this last trip, I had the hard 10 pressed up to 3 units, and the hard 6 or 8 pressed up to 2 units. The point was 4 and I made the point with a hard 4. I had to put the 6 or 8 back up once or twice because I made them, but not the hard way. When I have to put the bet back up from a soft hit, I just use $2 from the place bet win.

That's solid when the tokes are appreciated...and that's the point.

A thing that I like to do with the hardways (especially at the $1 or $2 level) is parlaying the winnings straight up if I am using a set that emphasizes them, like you're saying. The dealers are looking at the piggyback or two-way bet as a prop/toke, but is an advantage play with the right set.

 

[rdorange]

Axis on any set is always 7

Just to throw some discussion out about sets...

No matter what you set your dice on, the axis for any single die is always seven. The thing to watch for is the combined total of the two dice. The inside (between the two dice) and the outside (left side of left die combined with right side of right die) add up to create another pair of numbers, similar to the faces on axis. These inside and outside combined numbers are important if you keep both dice on axis. The fact is, the axis number of a die is only for reference purposes, as the the die can only land on one side!

I have been at the casino and been witness to countless number of people setting the dice. If you watch, most of these dice setters are using the top of the two dice combined as their reference. They are 90% of the time oblivious to what the front face of the dice are on. Quite often I see 7 on the front. That is a WARNING not to bet.

 

[ChefJJ]

Just to throw some discussion out about sets...

No matter what you set your dice on, the axis for any single die is always seven. The thing to watch for is the combined total of the two dice. The inside (between the two dice) and the outside (left side of left die combined with right side of right die) add up to create another pair of numbers, similar to the faces on axis. These inside and outside combined numbers are important if you keep both dice on axis. The fact is, the axis number of a die is only for reference purposes, as the the die can only land on one side!

I have been at the casino and been witness to countless number of people setting the dice. If you watch, most of these dice setters are using the top of the two dice combined as their reference. They are 90% of the time oblivious to what the front face of the dice are on. Quite often I see 7 on the front. That is a WARNING not to bet.

Interesting point...but just remember that there is no set that can take away the 7, just reduce it to 2/16 possibilities.

I do like your thought on paying attention to the numbers on the axis. Those are the true determinant of what the pre-set really is...the hard part is keeping them there

 

[rdorange]

That's my point...

That's my point! (no pun ) I think we are saying the same thing regarding sets.

Here is something else to think about.
If a shooter guages his roll and adjusts it at the table so his dice roll to the back wall, and don't actually get into the "alligator" then he has a good chance of keeping the dice on axis.

For example, my first roll on a new table I will always aim for the circled 12 in the field. If the dice roll or bounce and hit the alligator, I shorten my toss to the 11, and so on until I find a range that allows the dice to roll and stop, or roll and kiss the bottom of the wall. Doing this, the dice do quite often stay on axis, and somtimes together. I can especially tell when I throw the hardways set. I very seldom hit 6s and 1s, as these are on my axis. Along with hardways, I get other numbers, including the 7, but mostly still on axis. If I see the 1 or 6, I know one of the die has pitched one way or the other. Sometimes both pitch and I get 2 or 12.

 

[ChefJJ]

Here is something else to think about.
If a shooter guages his roll and adjusts it at the table so his dice roll to the back wall, and don't actually get into the "alligator" then he has a good chance of keeping the dice on axis.

Very important skill to develop. Another reason why an empty or less crowded table is preferred...less people, less chips to get in the way.

good luck

 

[rdorange]

Will try again

I am going to MS gulf coast next week. Will have plenty of time to play more craps. I'll keep you posted.

 

[ChefJJ]

Good luck in the gulf RDO...I'm going to have an "unusual" session around Thanksgiving in the Cinci area casinos. Time to teach Pops how to really play craps!