Crashed and Burned -- AGAIN!

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BradRod

Well-Known Member
I cannot figure out why I cannot get my game going.

I play 6D, DOA, DAS, S17, 4.5 -5 deck pen. I have been using Leroy Nimka's color KO.

I play at 10 and 15 $ tables mostly.

The count rarely gets into a rich level and when it does my high bets all lose add to that the often ineffective insurance bet.

The count is never very low either so that I have no reason to quit the game.

It does not make sense but, I start to think that the casino has removed at least 2 Ts to every deck or added 2 5's.

Any advice ??

Thanks,

Brad
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
How many hours of play has this been occuring, and do you play all counts or most just +counts? What's your spread from $10/$15min to $_ max? zg
 
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BradRod

Well-Known Member
How many hours of play has this been occuring, and do you play all counts or most just +counts? What's your spread from $10/$15min to $_ max? zg

my high bets range from $40 to $90 when my BR allows. hours are as long as it takes, i usually play for about 2 days in 4 hour sessions.

I usually play from the beginning of each shoe until it starts to look hopeless after 1 or 2 decks played. Then i take a bathroom break or just sit out if i think i can get away with that.

Usually it is other players that will gripe, as they do when i hit soft 18 V 9+ or stand on 16 V 10, etc.
 
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Double21

New Member
Your response was unclear but it sounds like you are betting from $10-$15 to a maximum of $90---"when your bankroll allows". The very lowest spread I've read for a six deck game is 12-1 unless you are Wonging which it doesn't look like you are doing. "When your bankroll allows" you are betting a max of 9 to 1.

Again--how many hours have you played? Eight total hours? Four hours a day for how many days? For us to help you we'll need clear answers.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
How many TOTAL hours has your play been generating a neg-result? The time to exit with HiLo is at TC-2, and exit you must if your spread is only 1-8. zg
 
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BradRod

Well-Known Member
How many TOTAL hours has your play been generating a neg-result? The time to exit with HiLo is at TC-2, and exit you must if your spread is only 1-8. zg

I am not sure how to translate to TC.

using the color KO system I start the count @ 16 at the beginning of the shoe. unless i am able to actually see the burn card i assume it is T,

if the count falls below 15 after 1 shoe i leave, 20 after 2 shoes and 25 after 3 shoes.

Total hours i would estimate @ 60

ZG - i know you like to promote the Zen count, i thought i might try that next. i chose the KO system for now because of its simplicity and it seems to work well for the type of shoe game that I play. I was previously using OmegaII, i was able to handle to 2 level count faily well but, it did not seem to accommodate itself well to multi deck games.

Thanks,

Brad
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
I think that the ColorKO is fine, as is Red7 - the premier UB'd system is UBZ2. 60hrs/6000-10000 hands does NOT a longrun make. I can't translate TC into KO but just make sure that you are not playing too much into a neg-count. zg
 
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BradRod

Well-Known Member
the premier UB'd system is UBZ2. 60hrs/6000-10000 hands does NOT a longrun make.

is UBZ2 explained in --- Blackbelt in Blackjack ?

what can i think of as a long run ?

thanks again

Brad
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
UBZ2 is sold seperately by GeoC by several sources -

tags 2-A
ZEN: 112221 00-2-1
UBZ: 122221 00-2-1

At a minimum I'd say 100,000 hands, but actually thats not really it either, but that would be 10x your 60hr sample.

Play with the count-simulator at this site, it will open your eyes. zg
 
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BradRod

Well-Known Member
Your response was unclear but it sounds like you are betting from $10-$15 to a maximum of $90---"when your bankroll allows". The very lowest spread I've read for a six

deck game is 12-1 unless you are Wonging which it doesn't look like you are doing. "When your bankroll allows" you are betting a max of 9 to 1.

Again--how many hours have you played? Eight total hours? Four hours a day for how many days? For us to help you we'll need clear answers.

Don't mean to be vague. I guess I am still learning to think in counting terms. so, I have not really kept good track but, my playing is very extensive..

in my recent negative streak as you may have seen by now i am estimating over 60 hours.

for me to bet 12-1 i would need a BR of over $5k which i do not have right now. do you think i should quit the game until i build it back it back up from other sources or is there a way i can use the game to help build up my BR ?
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
>> for me to bet 12-1 i would need a BR of over $5k which i do not have right now. do you think i should quit the game until i build it back it back up from other sources or is there a way i can use the game to help build up my BR?<<
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Think of the BR as 'cumulative' (ie, you can replenish along the way when/if necessary... AND avoid betting into -Ev decks! zg
 
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BradRod

Well-Known Member
Re: count-simulator ? HERE

this is very interesting but, i am not sure of its use. when i run the program with the same critria over again it gives me wildly different results is this a function of SD ?

if so, how can i know which change of variables accounts for the most reliable indicator of the outcome ?
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
Re: count-simulator ? HERE

this is very interesting but, i am not sure of its use. when i run the program with the same critria over again it gives me wildly different results is this a function of SD ?
------------------------

Runs of 10,000-100,000 hands will differ wildly, demonstrating the high-degree of variance involved in such 'short-samplings' zg
 
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learning to count

Well-Known Member
Six decks

I have had those days. This just an oppinion and I am still learning so please dont run to the casino and bet the house on my advise.

This is what I do when I play six deck shoes. First I check the penetration. Is it less than a 1.5 cut. I try and find 1 deck cut or close to. Second is it the best rules available. I look for at the least late surrender. Third spread is very important. I used to have a one to twenty spread at red chip but the mayor and ZG straightened me out on that. I now spread 1-30(40 if i can get away with it.I use a serious ramp also 5,25/40,50/75,100/150,two hands of 150/200 if I can get away with it. With a limited BR you should be wonging seriously. I start playing at the beggining of the shoe and leave at -1 tc. I wong out.

Now I am a HI-LO player and I have to divide for TC. Now the following statement is just my feeling and oppinion based on so far limited knowledge.

I have heard and (have seen) that KO is excellent for single and double deck but not as good as hi-lo for six deck. The reason I have heard this is that with a tc conversion you can make better strategy and bet decisions. I have yet to see more evidence to prove this. I am presently looking to verify this. Ko has been very deadly with single deck and especially for Super Fun 21. But I have heard little raving for six deck use. Still looking for for the Truth;LTC.
 
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BradRod

Well-Known Member
Re: Six decks

>>>>>>Second is it the best rules available. I look for at the least late surrender.

Thanks for the advice,,, no games near me have surrender or are single deck. though i sometimes travel to connecticut or indiana where it is available. otherwise rules seem pretty good.

>>>>>>>Third spread is very important. I used to have a one to twenty

spread at red chip but the mayor and ZG straightened me out on that. I now spread 1-30(40 if i can get away with it.I use a serious ramp

also 5,25/40,50/75,100/150,two hands of 150/200 if I can get away with it.
With a limited BR you should be wonging seriously. I start

playing at the beggining of the shoe and leave at -1 tc. I wong out.

spread and bankroll do seem to be my weakpoints right now. that is why it is so devastating having days like i just had. i was in the midst of trying to build up the bankroll gradually but it is hard when one must bet cautiosly and without the ability to really spread.

i may have been a little slow in leaving the table but i have been staying at the table until i lose a hand. sometimes while i am still at the table the count restores to a reasonable range but, maybe that is where i have been erring, i guess that if a shoe is not strong by one or two decks it is not going to be. so, i do seem to be playing in some very mediocre shoes.

>>>>>>>>>I have heard and (have seen) that KO is excellent for single and double deck but not as good as hi-lo for six deck. The reason I have

heard this is that with a tc conversion you can make better strategy and bet decisions.

May be true of the basic KO sytem. The color sytem of KO allows you to make all the playing decisions you need to without having to divide for TC in a multi deck game. the way it does is that you do all the math ahead of time . During play you only need to compare the nuber of decks played or remaining to the count that you are at ; if higher play one way , lower another. the simplicity of the system lets me play longer with less stresss.

Thanks for your response. it's very helpful.

Brad
 
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CanKen

Well-Known Member
Re: Six decks

I've been using KO for a couple of years and have gradually customized and added indices to suit myself and the game I play in.
I had never heard of "ColorKO". Can someone tell me what it is, or where to get info on it?
 
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