Crazy Rules: Fantastic or pointless?

[mikeS]

I recently discovered a game with the craziest rules I have ever seen or heard of. I don't want to share where in case it turns out to be a great game.

The Rules
8D
H17
NS
DOA
DAS
6:5 Blackjack

Pretty terrible rules, until

if you split As or 10s and get a blackjack on either hand it pays 6:5 also

This would definitely be a great rule in a normal game, but does it make up for the terrible rules in this game?

Is anyone willing to run a sim, I don't have the correct software.

 

[BJLFS]

Avoid it at all costs.

8D game gives the house an additional 0.57%

Adding up everything else I wouldn't be surprised if you start out with a HA of 1.5%.

 

[shadroch]

As you are not going to split tens anyway, that part of the rule is almost worthless. Getting 6-5 on a BJ with split Aces is nice, but doesn't come close to making up for the game not paying 3-2.

 

[ColorMeUp]

As you are not going to split tens anyway, that part of the rule is almost worthless. Getting 6-5 on a BJ with split Aces is nice, but doesn't come close to making up for the game not paying 3-2.

I'd guess a basic strategy for this game would actually have you splitting 10s against some cards, 5,6, etc, as the possibility of the extra payoff might outweigh the risk of breaking up the 20.....

 

[shadroch]

I'd guess a basic strategy for this game would actually have you splitting 10s against some cards, 5,6, etc, as the possibility of the extra payoff might outweigh the risk of breaking up the 20.....

Seriously, are you going to break up a 20 for a 1 in 13 shot at a 6-5 payout?

 

[Automatic Monkey]

Seriously, are you going to break up a 20 for a 1 in 13 shot at a 6-5 payout?

Puck yeah. You would split 10's against 5 or 6 at a reasonably high count anyway. You add 2% or so due to this rule and you're going to be splitting them at a TC less. It's a nice feature when splitting aces too. Still it doesn't make up for the 6:5, I wouldn't play this game without a real good reason.

 

[AJ-21]

Whuh?

Avoid it at all costs.

8D game gives the house an additional 0.57%

Adding up everything else I wouldn't be surprised if you start out with a HA of 1.5%.

Where are you getting this? Going from 6D to 8D adds a whopping .02%!!

6D, H17, DAS, LS, RSA = .48%

8D, H17, DAS, LS, RSA = .50%

Penetration will make or break your 8D game.

 

[BJLFS]

Where are you getting this? Going from 6D to 8D adds a whopping .02%!!

6D, H17, DAS, LS, RSA = .48%

8D, H17, DAS, LS, RSA = .50%

Penetration will make or break your 8D game.

I'm geting it from Stanford Wong Pro BJ.

 

[Nynefingers]

Seriously, are you going to break up a 20 for a 1 in 13 shot at a 6-5 payout?

I get where he's coming from, but it looks like you are right and the numbers just don't work. Just taking a quick look at it:

EV for standing with 21 vs. 6 is 0.9028
With the rule the OP is asking about, that EV goes to 1.2, for an increase of 0.2972

It's actually a 2/13 shot though, not a 1/13 shot, since each split gives two chances to catch an ace. So 2/13 of the time, our EV goes up by 0.2972, so our overall EV for splitting should increase by .0457. Off the top, that means our EV for splitting is .5138 vs. .704 for standing. Since this rule change makes up about 20% of the EV difference, and the rule will have more of an effect at higher TCs, I'd guess that this rule probably reduces the index by about 1, but it does not change the basic strategy for this game.

 

[shadroch]

I get where he's coming from, but it looks like you are right and the numbers just don't work. Just taking a quick look at it:

EV for standing with 21 vs. 6 is 0.9028
With the rule the OP is asking about, that EV goes to 1.2, for an increase of 0.2972

It's actually a 2/13 shot though, not a 1/13 shot, since each split gives two chances to catch an ace. So 2/13 of the time, our EV goes up by 0.2972, so our overall EV for splitting should increase by .0457. Off the top, that means our EV for splitting is .5138 vs. .704 for standing. Since this rule change makes up about 20% of the EV difference, and the rule will have more of an effect at higher TCs, I'd guess that this rule probably reduces the index by about 1, but it does not change the basic strategy for this game.

Isn't it 2/26, not 2/13? Each ten has a 1/13 shot at an ace.

 

[Nynefingers]

Isn't it 2/26, not 2/13? Each ten has a 1/13 shot at an ace.

You lost me here. 1/13 * 2 = 2/13...

 

[21gunsalute]

You lost me here. 1/13 * 2 = 2/13...

That would be true if you had 2 chances to hit each ten looking for an ace. Each event is independent. You only have one shot at getting a Blackjack on each hand in the split, so it's a one in 13 chance on each hit, not 2 in 13.

Ok, wait. I see what you're saying. You do have 2 chances for one Blackjack.

 

[jack.jackson]

Where are you getting this? Going from 6D to 8D adds a whopping .02%!!

6D, H17, DAS, LS, RSA = .48%

8D, H17, DAS, LS, RSA = .50%

Penetration will make or break your 8D game.

More than likely the difference is when being compared to single deck with same rules.

Also the fact, that, the 6/5 payout is a automatic winner would put splitting X's v 5 or 6 pretty close to a neutral count. Though nowhere close to compensate for the 6/5 payout on naturals.

 

[shadroch]

You lost me here. 1/13 * 2 = 2/13...

Suppose you split your tens and kept getting more tensand split them until you had 13 tens on the board. As I understand it, you are saying your chance of getting a BJ would be 13/13. We both know thats not correct. You don't have a 100% chance of getting a BJ.
Having two seperate in 13 chances is not the same as having a 2 in 13 chance.