DD Strategy--Louisville area Caesar's

Knox

Well-Known Member
I'm out here in Louisville courtesy of an all expense paid trip by my employer (hehe). Ok, ok, I have to work during the day but that is just a minor annoyance.

Caesar's out here is pretty lame. Lot's of $10-$15 H17 8 decks shoes. However, I did note one potential vulnerability there. Although I missed what the dealer did with the plug, pen is about 75% and it was a very lazy looking shuffle. I only sat through one 8D shoe just to hang out with my colleague. What I did notice was the dealer cut the cards in half then shuffled them together in about 6 equal-sized stacks, and that was it! Even my ploppy colleague commented later that he couldn't believe she did not shuffle more. I've not learned shuffle tracking yet, but this was ripe for it no doubt! I might have to give it a go.

My focus is on the DD game. Pen is about 60%. The have a high roller room with $25 min, S17, D 10-11 only, and on the regular floor (3rd), a $25 H17 game with similar pen and D 10-11 also. Clearly the high roller game is better, but it also stays a bit more crowded.

The strategy: play the high roller DD game. Spread = 1-6. Playing KO, I will wong out anytime the count is 1 deck lower than it should be. For example, after 1/2 deck the count should increase by +2. If it decreases by -2, I wong out. At one deck, if there is no increase in the count from the initial running count I will also wong out since it should have increased by +4. Note that I start the IRC at 0, but I am not trying to confuse anyone. There will also be wong out points between -2 and 0 from 1/2 deck to 1 deck. Once I wong out, I cannot reenter the shoe as it is NMS entry. That's ok, as I plan to park at the table and wave off the hands mixed in with the usual excuses to get up from the table while having the spot held.

I also thought about an exit strategy related to the current streak, if I am at a wong out point. For example, if the count hit -4 prior to 1/2 deck dealt, that would be a good wong out point. If I set a rule, such as lose more than two hands in a row in bad counts, that would play into the idea that I am just avoiding a bad "flow" of the cards, not uncommon for ploppies.

Anyway, just curious as to comments on this strategy, effect on EV, and any suggested enhancements. I'm planning to hit this place pretty aggressively, I don't know of any Caesar's where I would worry about getting kicked out. Of course, I would not like to get Griffened or anything like that, but that is probably a laughable concept for a little green chipper like me.

The bad news was they raised the minimum on the good DD game to $50 around 9 PM, so I only got a shot at the bad DD game. Played a couple of heads up rounds and left up a mere $60, but it beats losing!

Also, the only 6D game I saw was $25 minimum in the high roller area, although I think it was actually S17. However, the required $25-$250 spread to make that playable does not fit my bankroll.

The 8D games do look ripe for wonging though, so I may do a little of that during the week.
 

bj bob

Well-Known Member
My two cents

Knox, I think the reason that you're not getting any response is that there are so many variables here. The first thing that comes to my mind is what kind of trip BR do you have handy? If you're spreading 1-6 on DD you'll probably want to have a min. of $3K to keep rolling for a while. Next question would be how much maneuvering room you have in the pits. It's really hard to table hop if the pit doesn't have many open tables. The more crowded, the harder it is to wong in/ back count. On paper the S17 game is better than the H-17, pen. being equal, but may be more playable if you can do your thing more freely. Also, do they allow mid-deck/ shoe entry. Some houses don't mind too much if you come in after a round or two is dealt, others do. You just have to test the waters here. If you can hop in with a +3-4 RC (hi-lo) you should be in good shape. If you're wonging out, the higher your exit point, the more you're going to have to move around. It's all about the conditions at the time.
Anyway, I hope that this helps somewhat. After that, a lot depends, as I said, on the particulars at the current moment. Good luck and go get 'em!
 

Knox

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the comments and well wishes. I was unlucky and dropped 18 units or about $450, but that is quite low negative variance. The critical hand was where on a very high positive count I caught two aces against an 8 with a $125 bet out. I split and figured for sure I would get at least one 10. I got a couple of stiffs and the dealer made his hand, costing me $500!

You are right that there are lots of variables. As I mentioned, the conditions are lame overall, a case of "the only game in town". However, once I got there about 6 PM, dealer xxxxx was giving consistent 75% penetration. In addition, I found it easy to wong out with my spot held and avoided several bad counts simply by the usual bathroom and smoke break tactics. I was also able to simply sit out a few bad shoes while sitting at the table. The losses seemed to occur because I lost more of the big bets than I should have, which is something you just have to play through.

I should mention there is only one table in this area with DD. Nothing else is really worth playing in my opinion. Some of the bad rules they have is you can't spread to two hands midshoe, have to play twice the table minimum even to do that (2 x $50), and no midshoe entry (common for DD). In addition, the subsequent dealers tended towards weak penetration, sometimes only 50%, but variable. A little after 8PM they raised the limit to $50, and I got the heck out of there. These A-holes clearly sweat their chips, but their countermeasure is to offer poor games rather than give heat. I felt no heat and had no trouble playing my strategy.

That being said, this clearly is not a great game and I am undecided if I will go back at this point. However, if dealer xxxx continues to work that early evening shift it may be worth a shot...

edit for one last comment, forgot to add that I won $500 on a $300 buy in on my last trip to this place, so I am still up about $100 for maybe 4 hours of play, right on target with my EV or even a bit ahead given the conditions.
 
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Canceler

Well-Known Member
Knox said:
However, if dealer xxxxx continues to work that early evening shift it may be worth a shot...
Assuming he hasn't had his procedures corrected, or lost his job, because the wrong person read your post. :eek:
 
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Knox

Well-Known Member
Canceler said:
Assuming he hasn't had his procedures corrected, or lost his job, because the wrong person read your post. :eek:
Clearly the dealers are being coached to give weak penetration. Since he was doing it right in front of the pit boss, it's not like its a big secret or anything. If they want it to be an exact science, they need to notch it. They have no grounds to dismiss this dealer in such a subjective situation, IMO.

But what the heck, I decided you are right, that dealer xxxxx deserves better for making it a fairer game. I went back and deleted his name, thanks.
 
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Brock Windsor

Well-Known Member
Shuffle Track

So was the initial shuffle you described (for 8deck) the actual one the casino uses? Depending on how the plug was dispersed that was likely your better chance to earn IF you could track it. Still a balanced card count would have served the purpose of shuffle tracking much better than KO.
BW
 

Knox

Well-Known Member
I'm going back tonight, I'll look at the shuffles more closely, may do some wonging too depending on the penny on that DD game.
 

Knox

Well-Known Member
Well I had a great session. Not much more than an hour of play on the DD game, bought in for $300 and cashed out up over a grand. Penetration was still not great but a new dealer was giving 60-65% at times. That is certainly playable, even with the restrictive doubling rules, because the saving grace was S17. There is also only 5 spots on the table, and we mostly operating with 3-4 players.

Memorable highlights were excellent counts early that drew my max bet and a "checks play" call out by the dealer, followed by a blackjack on my part and several wins at that bet level. I also passed on a 13 vs 4 negative index play, only to lose the hand, dealer got my six! I was about to wong out prior to the last hand near the end of the session to the bathroom. Dealer talks me into playing and I get a blackjack! Dealer assumes I want even money to his ace and pays me that even without waiting for my response. No way I take ins with the high negative count, but for the $12.50 cost it was nowhere near worth correcting him. Of couse he did not have the natural! Shortly thereafter I handed him a nice tip (cover play) and left.

All and all a great tune up for my Vegas trip late next week. I'm cashing out +$600 for the week and quite satisfied. Now I will have to buy my boy the Nintendo Wii I promised him if I won, If I can find one!

Sidenote: I did not even fool with scoping the 8D shuffles since the DD game was on fire for me. I still believe these are vulnerable and would love to see some fellow counters put the hurt on the tight @$$es at this place!
 
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Knox

Well-Known Member
Brock Windsor said:
So was the initial shuffle you described (for 8deck) the actual one the casino uses? Depending on how the plug was dispersed that was likely your better chance to earn IF you could track it. Still a balanced card count would have served the purpose of shuffle tracking much better than KO.
BW
Thanks for the comment BW. KO is so easy that I fully believe I could simulate running count adjustments for shuffle tracking with out too much difficulty, if that is what you are getting at. I think the best counting system for a person is one that keeps the game enjoyable while they can still play close to 100% accuracy and of course win money. So far KO is all of the above for me so I see no reason to change at this time. I'm having fun customizing the KO system to improve it, and when I get my simulation software going I plan to take it to its maximum potential. If I ever start losing I can always revisit other systems.
 
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