Dealer deals themself blackjack then deals hit cards...

[itakeyourmoney]

I was recently at the casino backcounting while my friend was playing and a situation arose in which the dealer dealt themselves a blackjack (ace was hole card), forgot to check, and began dealing out Hit cards to players. Nearly everyone (perhaps even everyone at the table, 5 players) busted, then the dealer proceeded to flip over an Ace. She called over the floor manager who said it was fine since everyone would've lost anyway.

I didn't say anything at the time since I wasn't playing and my friend only lost $5, but had I lost a bet myself I think I could've made a pretty strong case that since 7 cards were dealt that shouldn't have been dealt, it's a significant change to the deck (what if it had been 7 aces? or 7 10s?), and essentially the dealer broke the casino's own rules.

What do you guys think about this? Any experience with a similar situation in the past?

ITYM

 

[UK-21]

Start discussing the whys and wherefores of deck composition with a PC or floor supervisor and you might as well walk in wearing sunglasses, a baseball cap and a t-shirt with a big luminous sign saying skilled player on it. Vary your bets significantly and I think your time in that joint will be limited.

Just my two cents worth . . . .

If it was in the UK I'm sure you could argue on a point of practice as I think it quite likely the floor supervisor wouldn't have a clue what you were talking about. But for a min bet, I'd still stay stumm.

 

[itakeyourmoney]

Start discussing the whys and wherefores of deck composition with a PC or floor supervisor and you might as well walk in wearing sunglasses, a baseball cap and a t-shirt with a big luminous sign saying skilled player on it. Vary your bets significantly and I think your time in that joint will be limited.

Just my two cents worth . . . .

If it was in the UK I'm sure you could argue on a point of practice as I think it quite likely the floor supervisor wouldn't have a clue what you were talking about. But for a min bet, I'd still stay stumm.

Well I wasn't going to write them out a proof or anything :laugh:

I agree with you about staying quiet for only a min bet though, this is something that would have to be used only in certain circumstances. Which although rare, could still be very helpful if it saves you from losing a DD on a max bet.

 

[UK-21]

Well I wasn't going to write them out a proof or anything :laugh:

I agree with you about staying quiet for only a min bet though, this is something that would have to be used only in certain circumstances. Which although rare, could still be very helpful if it saves you from losing a DD on a max bet.

Thinking about it, it's not something that'll happen in the UK as we don't have hole cards. I agree though - if there was a sizeable bet out, I think you could argue on a point of practice if the dealer screwed up. The most common error I've seen is where the dealer pulls two cards from the shoe in error and plays what is the wrong one. When this has happened, the player has been given the choice of sticking with the one dealt, or swapping it for the one he hasn't seen (usually stuck behind the one now face up).

 

[creeping panther]

Itake

I was recently at the casino backcounting while my friend was playing and a situation arose in which the dealer dealt themselves a blackjack (ace was hole card), forgot to check, and began dealing out Hit cards to players. Nearly everyone (perhaps even everyone at the table, 5 players) busted, then the dealer proceeded to flip over an Ace. She called over the floor manager who said it was fine since everyone would've lost anyway.

I didn't say anything at the time since I wasn't playing and my friend only lost $5, but had I lost a bet myself I think I could've made a pretty strong case that since 7 cards were dealt that shouldn't have been dealt, it's a significant change to the deck (what if it had been 7 aces? or 7 10s?), and essentially the dealer broke the casino's own rules.

What do you guys think about this? Any experience with a similar situation in the past?

ITYM

Do not make a big deal about it, just walk away till the next slipper if you are angry about it.

CP

 

[FLASH1296]

The floor-person's decision was completely appropriate.

Besides, any 'extra' cards depleted from the shoe, merely resulted in the removal of random cards.

 

[Katweezel]

The Flow

The floor-person's decision was completely appropriate.

Besides, any 'extra' cards depleted from the shoe, merely resulted in the removal of random cards.

Great then Flash. It doesn't mess up the magical flow of cards... I'll try to explain that to the next idiot table expert I see shooting off his mouth about just ONE card messing up the flow.

 

[sabre]

This is an advantageous situation. If surrender is available, you essentially now have early surrender for that hand (doubtful that they are going to make you pay back half your bet when the dealer realizes he didn't check). If you hit 21, you can probably easily argue for a push (this has happened to me).

Be thankful for the opportunities a mistake like this produces, but don't get greedy and try to push for an unreasonable edge

 

[Automatic Monkey]

This is an advantageous situation. If surrender is available, you essentially now have early surrender for that hand (doubtful that they are going to make you pay back half your bet when the dealer realizes he didn't check). If you hit 21, you can probably easily argue for a push (this has happened to me).

Be thankful for the opportunities a mistake like this produces, but don't get greedy and try to push for an unreasonable edge

Saw this happen just last week, and a long time ago it happened to me after a surrender. They demanded the half bet back and I told them to bugger off. They buggered off.

One argument you will win 100% of the time is if you doubled or split and they try to take the extra bets. No way we can let them get away with that.

 

[SystemsTrader]

I've actually been playing when this same situation came up. The floor sup declared the dealer the winner. The very next round the floor sup then gave each player the chance to pull out of the round after seeing our first two cards. That was very fair of the casino to do that. Unfortunately the floor sup did not mention she was going to do that until all the hands were dealt otherwise I would have put out the table max.

 

[ihate17]

That Flow might be your friend

Great then Flash. It doesn't mess up the magical flow of cards... I'll try to explain that to the next idiot table expert I see shooting off his mouth about just ONE card messing up the flow.

I have had the same thing happen in a negative shoe and explained to the pit that the Flow of the cards had been seriously disturbed. I asked for and received a shuffle.
The result of that hand was proper, the dealer had blackjack or even if it is not considered blackjack because he did not check, he still had 21. Something positive for the players can only happen on the next hand so that is where you should aim. A hand you can opt out of is great and would be unexpected. I thought breaking that shoe because of a house error was a minimal nice gesture that they easily could and did do. (It was a great situation for this, heads up and great pen and now I had dumped a negative shoe early on)

ihate17

 

[Cardcounter]

Don't get worked up about dealer mistakes.

First of all the fact that players got hits would not have changed the fact that the dealer would have received a blackjack because his hole card was already underneath the ten before the hits. A lot of times when the dealer forgets to check for a blackjack and has it plays as a 21 so if you draw to 21 sometimes you can talk the pit boss into giving you a push. Other wise it is a loser just like it would have been had the dealer checked for blackjack.
If you don't like what came out you can ask for a reshuffle especially in a case where the flow of the cards was changed. But if you do like what came out you can say don't worry about the mistake just keep dealing these cards.

 

[Mimosine]

what's more important is to know if this dealer is prone to making other mistakes. one mistake an hour can change the house edge on the game in the player's favor if and when you are prepared to capitalize on it.

some others have alluded to this already based on their separate experiences.