Last night i'm sitting there looking at my hand,A-7 vs the dealers' 10 upcard.I take the hit and as she goes to deal a card to the next player she gives me a snide look and says"THAT WAS AN 18 YOU HAD"! I remained silent like i didn't have a clue. I was in the casino a total of 40 minutes and left after increasing my bankroll by 50%. It's just amazing to me how many dealers are ignorant regarding the game!
Dealer Ignorance Of The Game
- Thread starter grift
- Start date
Greasy John
Active Member
I take it you didn't catch a duce
Big Cowboy
Well-Known Member
Another way to look at it is that if a dealer is so stupid that he/she is giving the wrong advice, then there's a good likelihood that that person won't know how a counter plays. You can play like you're an idiot to the dealer (which would be as an advantage player) and get away with all sorts of cool plays.
suicyco maniac
Well-Known Member
You guys.....
don't get out to play very much do you?????? I must have heard the soft 18 comment 800,000 times in my play!!!! O.K. its a bit of an over statement but still....
don't get out to play very much do you?????? I must have heard the soft 18 comment 800,000 times in my play!!!! O.K. its a bit of an over statement but still....
Re: I take it you didn't catch a duce
Insurance really screws em up.
I had about $45 out on a +6 count or so & dealer gets ace up, so I take insurance but I didn't have any singles so I put $25 in red out. Dealer turns over BJ then pushes my bet & then puts my insurance in his tray. So I say wait a minute you were supposed pay that back to me. So he calls the Pit Boss over & tells what happened & he says ok pay him. So dealer pays me my $25 in red then pays me 2 green for the insurance bet & PB goes that's right while my original bet is still out there. And no I had 19 or something,no blackjack. So I made an extra $50. Then the PB tells the dealer to shuffle up, even though there were a couple hands left. Then the dealer says he never even saw an insurance bet before, much less a winning one. hehe Normally works another game.
Insurance really screws em up.
I had about $45 out on a +6 count or so & dealer gets ace up, so I take insurance but I didn't have any singles so I put $25 in red out. Dealer turns over BJ then pushes my bet & then puts my insurance in his tray. So I say wait a minute you were supposed pay that back to me. So he calls the Pit Boss over & tells what happened & he says ok pay him. So dealer pays me my $25 in red then pays me 2 green for the insurance bet & PB goes that's right while my original bet is still out there. And no I had 19 or something,no blackjack. So I made an extra $50. Then the PB tells the dealer to shuffle up, even though there were a couple hands left. Then the dealer says he never even saw an insurance bet before, much less a winning one. hehe Normally works another game.
Automatic Monkey
Banned
Re: You guys.....
Don't hit soft 18. Don't split 9's (my favorite). Don't split 10's. (This one is tougher to cover but if you are splitting 10's chances are you're having a good night.) Why'd you draw on 12 against a 4? What did you surrender for? You can't win if you don't play. Why do you insure a 14?
Fortunately the most valuable index which is stand 16 vs. X is commonly played by ploppies.
Don't hit soft 18. Don't split 9's (my favorite). Don't split 10's. (This one is tougher to cover but if you are splitting 10's chances are you're having a good night.) Why'd you draw on 12 against a 4? What did you surrender for? You can't win if you don't play. Why do you insure a 14?
Fortunately the most valuable index which is stand 16 vs. X is commonly played by ploppies.
Counter - Intelligence
Member
Re: You guys.....
My favorite A,7 v 10 story happened in the "Trashy Castle". I signal for a hit, Dealer says "but you have 18!" I signal again D says "why you want to ruin a good hand?" Now I have flames shooting from my eyes, and I poked the table so hard I almost broke my index finger. He flips me the 3 and was so astonished he fell backwards and almost knocked over the PC rostrum behind him.
The other 2 players looked on with dropped jaws. as he flipped his hole 10 and had to pay only me. I promptly left at the shuffle as the incident attracted the attention of the entire pit.
My favorite A,7 v 10 story happened in the "Trashy Castle". I signal for a hit, Dealer says "but you have 18!" I signal again D says "why you want to ruin a good hand?" Now I have flames shooting from my eyes, and I poked the table so hard I almost broke my index finger. He flips me the 3 and was so astonished he fell backwards and almost knocked over the PC rostrum behind him.
The other 2 players looked on with dropped jaws. as he flipped his hole 10 and had to pay only me. I promptly left at the shuffle as the incident attracted the attention of the entire pit.
Rob McGarvey
Well-Known Member
Re: You're *supposed* to hit A-7 vs 10??!!
Glad you're kidding! smile
Glad you're kidding! smile
Stealth Bomber
Well-Known Member
Cover play
RE: soft 18 v. 10
I promptly left at the shuffle as the incident attracted the attention of the entire pit.
I think we should just stand with soft 18 v. 9, 10 & A. The small amount of EV that we get is not worth the cover we lose. ???
RE: soft 18 v. 10
I promptly left at the shuffle as the incident attracted the attention of the entire pit.
I think we should just stand with soft 18 v. 9, 10 & A. The small amount of EV that we get is not worth the cover we lose. ???
Re: Cover play
If we are making the "wrong" play by hitting A-7 vs. 10, then that should be our cover. I don't know what the EV is either, but if you do that, why not don't split 4,4 vs. 5,6, don't split 9,9 when appropriate, always hit or don't hit 16 vs. 10, never take insurance? I doubt any AP is going to get caught because they hit A-7 vs. 10. Most AP's get caught because they hang around too long or win too much.
Reminds me fondly of the time I split 4,4 vs. 6 and the dealer gave me a real hard time (Showboat, AC). The count was fairly high so I was betting over a hundred on each hand. Made sure I bet one black, at least one green, one red, one pink, and one white on every hand. She had to break down every hand and BJ's were particularly fun. I was being a jerk and I certainly don't recommend that strategy to anyone, but it was fun at the time.
If we are making the "wrong" play by hitting A-7 vs. 10, then that should be our cover. I don't know what the EV is either, but if you do that, why not don't split 4,4 vs. 5,6, don't split 9,9 when appropriate, always hit or don't hit 16 vs. 10, never take insurance? I doubt any AP is going to get caught because they hit A-7 vs. 10. Most AP's get caught because they hang around too long or win too much.
Reminds me fondly of the time I split 4,4 vs. 6 and the dealer gave me a real hard time (Showboat, AC). The count was fairly high so I was betting over a hundred on each hand. Made sure I bet one black, at least one green, one red, one pink, and one white on every hand. She had to break down every hand and BJ's were particularly fun. I was being a jerk and I certainly don't recommend that strategy to anyone, but it was fun at the time.
Counter - Intelligence
Member
Re: Cover play
I agree that if hitting S18 is considered "wrong", that is cover in itself. I find that playing the "wrong way" using I18 indices is plenty of cover at most places.
I'm not a big fan of giving up EV on intentinal misplays, I'd rather mix the bets around in neutral to slightly positive counts and give up some short EV for some cover that way. I'll take the occasional "even money" if the pit is close enough to notice.
I agree that if hitting S18 is considered "wrong", that is cover in itself. I find that playing the "wrong way" using I18 indices is plenty of cover at most places.
I'm not a big fan of giving up EV on intentinal misplays, I'd rather mix the bets around in neutral to slightly positive counts and give up some short EV for some cover that way. I'll take the occasional "even money" if the pit is close enough to notice.
Stealth Bomber
Well-Known Member
Re: Cover play
Most AP's get caught because they hang around too long or win too much.
This is certainly true. Your points are well taken. I should have elaborated more.
I still think it is good to make the right cover plays when the right people are watching even if we give back a very slight amount of EV. The question I have is: Which plays will give us the biggest bang for the buck and allow us to appear as if we are just 'high quality' ploppies while only giving away the slightest amount of EV?
One thing is certain; if a cover play is used and the right people don't notice, we only lose $ and get nothing in return. Therefore, we only do it if we can somehow benefit and gain playing time.
Most AP's get caught because they hang around too long or win too much.
This is certainly true. Your points are well taken. I should have elaborated more.
I still think it is good to make the right cover plays when the right people are watching even if we give back a very slight amount of EV. The question I have is: Which plays will give us the biggest bang for the buck and allow us to appear as if we are just 'high quality' ploppies while only giving away the slightest amount of EV?
One thing is certain; if a cover play is used and the right people don't notice, we only lose $ and get nothing in return. Therefore, we only do it if we can somehow benefit and gain playing time.
never use cover unless indices are called for
Most counters cover way too much and then end up without wins,
many say but we will have longivity-NOT always the case.
The stay 17 is stupid,many players hit it,anyways
-the only cover is indices with a touch more
like hitting 13,with 5-6 showing.
Most counters cover way too much and then end up without wins,
many say but we will have longivity-NOT always the case.
The stay 17 is stupid,many players hit it,anyways
-the only cover is indices with a touch more
like hitting 13,with 5-6 showing.
Stealth Bomber
Well-Known Member
Re: never use cover unless indices are called for
On LV strip just north of Bally's, I hit a hard 13 v. 6 with a min green bet, C was way south so I caught a 6. D made about a 4 or 5 card 17 so I won the hand. While the D is shuffling the 2D, PC walks up and says; "Sir, we've decided not to allow you to play anymore BJ. But your welcomed to play any of our other games bla bla bla....." The other player on the table couldn't believe what he was seeing and hearing. He said, "So what did he do wrong, beat you guys out of some money"? D and PC say nothing. The guy pushes out his checks and says, "Guess I'm done too. Color me up".
I was up about $400. Maybe I played too long, about 1hr.
On LV strip just north of Bally's, I hit a hard 13 v. 6 with a min green bet, C was way south so I caught a 6. D made about a 4 or 5 card 17 so I won the hand. While the D is shuffling the 2D, PC walks up and says; "Sir, we've decided not to allow you to play anymore BJ. But your welcomed to play any of our other games bla bla bla....." The other player on the table couldn't believe what he was seeing and hearing. He said, "So what did he do wrong, beat you guys out of some money"? D and PC say nothing. The guy pushes out his checks and says, "Guess I'm done too. Color me up".
I was up about $400. Maybe I played too long, about 1hr.
I like the other players reaction
I have done the same thing but with perhaps more reason. (they stop one AP at the table, good chance I am next) Give that pit the insulted and shocked look of "you are throwing this player out because he won?, I think I will take my action to a real casino!" Of course they probably watched your play carefully for the past 30 minutes or so but most other players have never seen someone told no more BJ and are very surprised. Of course, if I was the one being backed off I would say little or nothing, (do not want the situation to escalate) but ploppy shock is nice.
I really do not think we pick up that much cover by playing as if we have no knowledge of basic strategy. Most of us will appear to be at least BS knowledgeable to the pit. The things mentioned like A7 hits and doubles, 99, and 44 vs 5 or 6, are BS. I think it is more important to carefully pick the times you deviate from BS. Hitting for instance a 12vs6 in a neg count might be the right move but it is at a time when you have a minimum bet out there or should have wonged out. So if I want to give up some EV for cover I tend to do it when it will cost me the least.
I have done the same thing but with perhaps more reason. (they stop one AP at the table, good chance I am next) Give that pit the insulted and shocked look of "you are throwing this player out because he won?, I think I will take my action to a real casino!" Of course they probably watched your play carefully for the past 30 minutes or so but most other players have never seen someone told no more BJ and are very surprised. Of course, if I was the one being backed off I would say little or nothing, (do not want the situation to escalate) but ploppy shock is nice.
I really do not think we pick up that much cover by playing as if we have no knowledge of basic strategy. Most of us will appear to be at least BS knowledgeable to the pit. The things mentioned like A7 hits and doubles, 99, and 44 vs 5 or 6, are BS. I think it is more important to carefully pick the times you deviate from BS. Hitting for instance a 12vs6 in a neg count might be the right move but it is at a time when you have a minimum bet out there or should have wonged out. So if I want to give up some EV for cover I tend to do it when it will cost me the least.
I try to look like ...
a ploppy by pulling out my little BS card I keep in my pocket.
I tell them to hold on, act as though I am looking at it for an answer, play the hand. If I win, I say...hey, the book is right. If I lose, I say...I won't be using this thing again, or something to that effect.
You then don't have to catch heat from anyone, OR leave the table...I love my little card...grin'n
a ploppy by pulling out my little BS card I keep in my pocket.
I tell them to hold on, act as though I am looking at it for an answer, play the hand. If I win, I say...hey, the book is right. If I lose, I say...I won't be using this thing again, or something to that effect.
You then don't have to catch heat from anyone, OR leave the table...I love my little card...grin'n