Dealing with the wife or g/f

Thunder

Well-Known Member
Have any of you guys run into the classic problem where your wife or g/f gets really angry at you for going to the casino because they feel you could lose a lot of money and/or that it degenerates your soul despite you telling them that you do it because you know you have the advantage.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
My Mom thinks I'm going to hell. My Dad is intrigued.

My Mom's folks were very devout Southern Methodists, no drinking, smoking, or swearing. Or gambling, I guess. I had it instilled in me pretty early that gambling was a surefire way to lose money, and that no "system" will work. So anyway, every once in a while, she'll call me up and ask "Have you lost all your money yet?", to which I'll respond "Not yet, but I'm planning on it next time".

Incidentally, I was also raised to think that gambling is a little bit "dirty". Which I think is part of the appeal. Although by now, it's lost the sense of exoticness, so it's more "grimy" than "dirty".

My Dad seems interested and slightly amused. He usually asks more questions about the mechanics of how it all works. I guess it's the accoutant in him.
 

supercoolmancool

Well-Known Member
Thunder said:
Have any of you guys run into the classic problem where your wife or g/f gets really angry at you for going to the casino because they feel you could lose a lot of money and/or that it degenerates your soul despite you telling them that you do it because you know you have the advantage.
Yes. I have completely discrased the family name. Everyone I know hates me for it. What I have learned though is that you must always be willing to walk away in life; be it friends, family, job, ect. Your friends are rarely your friends.
 
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Mimosine

Well-Known Member
supercoolmancool said:
Yes. I have completely discrased the family name. Everyone I know hates me for it. What I have learned though is that you must always be willing to walk away in life; be it friends, family, job, ect. Your friends are rarely your friends.
i would say your family is rarely your family. but maybe that just applies to me.
 

halcyon1234

Well-Known Member
Not yet. But then again, I'm only taking very small amounts. And the first couple times, it wasn't even my money (my brother staked me into a couple Hold'Em sng).

She isn't a gambler herself-- though I have tempted her with a weekend at Niagara Falls. Of course, the way it will probably work out is that I go with my brother, build up enough points for a comp, then come back another weekend, get a free room, then hit the Falls and the haunted houses (and maybe just an hour of blackjack-- y'know, for walking around cash, yeah that's it) =)
 

ihate17

Well-Known Member
No problem with family

Coming from a family that has had 4 generations of casino employees and 3 generations of advantage players, some of whom swung both ways, most of my family is not a problem.
Problems have always come up with people who are friends and workmates. Long ago I learned that the less you shared the better off you are. Made a big mistake many years ago just giving several people I worked with basic strategy cards before they attended a convention in Vegas. They had been talking about blackjack and I had gleemed enough from the conversation to know they had no clue, so I tried to help. Was labeled from that day to the day I left the firm as a gambler and I do not consider myself a gambler. Furthermore; the nature of the business we were in would make someone who gambled, someone who could not be completely trusted.

Friends who do not gamble, need never know.
Friends who know you are an advantage player will ask you questions and my experience is that few to none will ever take the time it takes to become counters.
Friends who know you sometimes gamble but do not know you are an advantage player can probably never be convinced that you make money at this. They will just consider to be in denial or at worst a complete liar.

ihate17
 
Yes, remember that we are a rare breed and it is virtually impossible to convince even people who are comfortable with gambling of the merits of AP unless they are interested in it to begin with. Look how hard it is to convince a ploppy even that a basic strategy play is a correct one! Chances are your wife or gf understands about as much about what we do as that ploppy, plus probably harbors some fear and feelings of disgust about gambling. Women (understandably) associate gambling (even though that is not what we do) with addiction, abuse, bankruptcy, violence and general degradation. Note that the new slot machines that draw in older women like moths to a flame avoid traditional gambling themes in favor of TV show and cartoonish themes. Same for lottery. I'm convinced that many of the players of these games don't think of it as the same thing as someone shooting craps or playing cards. More like bingo night.

It will help to have some good technical books laying around, written in the language of a mathematician and not a gambler. Let her see you running your sims and working on your game, as you should be doing. Explain what your EV is and plan your trips accordingly (this is a good habit for you to be in in any case).

Most importantly, "show me the money." There is nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing that will get a girl over fears of loss and problem gambling like breaking into your bankroll to buy her a new pair of shoes or jewelry or some furniture. Consider it "cover play"! Explain that it represents X hours playing BJ at Casino N., it was hard work but she's worth it and all that mushy crap. Don't be surprised if she starts telling you to play more, and planning vacations in gaming venues.
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
Automatic Monkey said:
......
Most importantly, "show me the money." There is nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing that will get a girl over fears of loss and problem gambling like breaking into your bankroll to buy her a new pair of shoes or jewelry or some furniture. Consider it "cover play"! Explain that it represents X hours playing BJ at Casino N., it was hard work but she's worth it and all that mushy crap. Don't be surprised if she starts telling you to play more, and planning vacations in gaming venues.
exactly! this is i'm sure the reason my wife accepts my behavior.... it's all about the benjamins baby.
when i hit negative fluctuation she's on me to work on my game.
more negative fluctuation and she starts waivering about whether i should be playing or not.
 

EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
Automatic Monkey said:
Women (understandably) associate gambling (even though that is not what we do) with addiction, abuse, bankruptcy, violence and general degradation.
I also associate gambling with those things. It's scary. There's a part in the book Whale Hunt in the Desert that describes various millionaires breaking themselves on high stakes gambling... it was terrifying. When I was in Vegas with my stepdad, he lost a bunch on slots (don't know how much), it was depressing.

Few weeks ago, a coworker was establishing a $2 pool to guess the birth date for his expectant wife. When he asked me to pick a date, I responded "I don't gamble". He just about fell over. (later, I reconsidered, and when I was making a withdrawal at the bank for my Vegas trip, I pulled an extra $2 for the pool).
 
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MEDITANK

Well-Known Member
just ask anyone of these hypocrites if they own any stocks. the biggest casino is located somewhere on wall st.
Cooked books, cooked CEOS, cooked companies. there really is no difference.:flame:
 

Mimosine

Well-Known Member
EasyRhino said:
I also associate gambling with those things. It's scary. There's a part in the book What Hunt in the Desert that describes various millionaires breaking themselves on high stakes gambling... it was terrifying. When I was in Vegas with my stepdad, he lost a bunch on slots (don't know how much), it was depressing.

Few weeks ago, a coworker was establishing a $2 pool to guess the birth date for his expectant wife. When he asked me to pick a date, I responded "I don't gamble". He just about fell over. (later, I reconsidered, and when I was making a withdrawal at the bank for my Vegas trip, I pulled an extra $2 for the pool).
The Koran forbids gambling. that's why i play blackjack.
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by EasyRhino View Post
I also associate gambling with those things. It's scary. There's a part in the book What Hunt in the Desert that describes various millionaires breaking themselves on high stakes gambling... it was terrifying. When I was in Vegas with my stepdad, he lost a bunch on slots (don't know how much), it was depressing.

Mimosine said:
The Koran forbids gambling. that's why i play blackjack.
sorry Mimosine but i'd have to disagree. blackjack is indeed gambling even if you employ advantage play. reason being that advantage play involves dealing with risk of ruin. the possibility of one losing ones entire bankroll is very real even if the percentage is very small.
 

Knox

Well-Known Member
To me gambling means playing with a negative expectation. If you play long enough you will eventually lose. A smart AP will not lose in the long run.

A gambler has to "get lucky" to win. An AP need only have average luck to win. A horrid run of bad luck will ruin the gambler, but the AP can weather the storm.
 
EasyRhino said:
I also associate gambling with those things. It's scary. There's a part in the book What Hunt in the Desert that describes various millionaires breaking themselves on high stakes gambling... it was terrifying. When I was in Vegas with my stepdad, he lost a bunch on slots (don't know how much), it was depressing.

Well it is scary, it's a dangerous addiction and what's worse is it doesn't seem like anyone in public life is sincerely interested in helping the addict, because the government relies on the income from it. Maybe this following statement really belongs in the Zen Zone, but if the government ever decides to legalize, regulate and tax drugs, are they going to start pushing crack on the public like they do their damned lottery tickets?

Hey you know, Mother's Day is coming up, maybe you could convert some of that recently expanded bankroll of yours to a shiny new sewing machine or some cruise tickets or something. That might clear up that going-to-Hell problem you've been having. :devil:
 

iwantblackjack

Well-Known Member
I'm confused. What defines a recreational gaming player to a serious gaming player to a professional gaming player? And how about the problem player or gambler? As I analyze some data, even the advantage player has some losing sessions or weekends, as shown by stdev. But, s/he returns on another trip, claiming the AP will catch up again. Is s/he chasing the losses? S/he probably felt remorse after losing, and wants to return to casino for a +EV. S/he practices and practices and runs simulations and thinks about the game constantly. Is this preoccupation problematic? Even after a win, it seems that most of us will still return to play more (even at a later date.) I can go on, and in some situations, it may be quite clear, and some areas abit shady, of examples of being problematic in gambling or gaming.
 
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EasyRhino

Well-Known Member
Well, some of those easy definitions:

"Professional" - plays as primary source of income
"Recreational" - does not
"Serious" - Has no fun :joker:

You know, there's nothing really dangerous about practicing continuously. I mean, it might be kind of obsessive-compulsive, but not more than constantly ironing your underwear. It's basically harmless.

But if you've got somebody playing a lot, how does an outsider tell the difference between a compulsive gambler and a hard-working AP? I can think of two "tests":

1) Is the player actually playing in such a way as to ensure a long-term advantage? You'd have to test or observe the player's technical proficiency here. If they fail this test, they are, at best a failed advantage player (which technically isn't an advantage player any more)

2) Why is the player playing? If they're playing primarily for the excitement of the win and the... whatever, of the loss, then they're a gambler. If they're just playing to grind out an eventual profit, they're an AP

But 2) is where everything gets murky. Everyone gets excited if they win a lot, and bummed if they lose. And there can be such things as compulsive gambler card-counters. Where was the article? Ah yes:
http://www.blackjackforumonline.com/content/professional_compulsive_gamblers.htm
 

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
i'm sure i'm obsessive-compulsive. and happy as a pig in mud about it. the thing about my obsessive-compulsive personality is that it's always directed at positive out come activities. if something is a loser situation i'll abandon it but if the results are positive i'll sink my teeth in and never let go like a pit bull.
 

Kasi

Well-Known Member
Maybe I'm lucky - my wife loves to gamble (I don't). People think I gamble because they know about my internet stuff. But that wasn't gambling.

When we met she loved slots. But I taught her BS, she plays perfectly and now we enjoy many hours together playing for hours and hours on a couple hundred bucks.

It's alot better than when I used to give her $100, go to the men's room, and she needs more money when I come back!
 

zengrifter

Banned
Thunder said:
Have any of you guys run into the classic problem where your wife or g/f gets really angry at you for going to the casino because they feel you could lose a lot of money and/or that it degenerates your soul despite you telling them that you do it because you know you have the advantage.
Yes, but keep in mind that with some of us its actually true that we have an edge. zg

Ps - and just because we have an edge it does not mean that it does not degenerate one's soul!
 

blackchipjim

Well-Known Member
Problem what Problem?

Heat doesn't come from casinos it comes from the wife. I've caught more heat from my mother in law becauses she thinks counting is illegal. I almost don't want to go with my wife or in laws even though they like the slots because the possibility of them saying something stupid when I'm at the table. Any good player has a problem because he likes to play a game that is associated with other vices. If you do anything in excess it becomes a problem. My usual response to anyone who comments about me playing bj is " It's only a problem when your're losing" . blackchipjim:eyepatch:
 
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