Disguising Play

Kevin

Member
A lot of people talk on this web site on how they disguise their play by acting like other people when on the tables (like leaving when it is a minus count and the dealer wins the next hand or pulls a BJ.) What you have to understand is once you start playing perfect basic stradegy you are already giving yourself away. Good basic stradegy is rarely found and as soon as you hit your soft 18 against a 9 or 10 or hit your 12 vs a dealer 3 is like telling a percentage of dealers and majority of pit supervisors that your a real player dispite your great acting abilities. Here some tips I've learned over the years.

1) If you find a dealer that you were able to have a large bet fluxation without getting notice would be one to follow. ( make him or her like you)

2) New dealers dont know anything about basic stradegy and even though they a are slow and more hands mean more money, they also make more mistakes which will make up for the lack of hands out.

3) Pit Supervisors are usually one of two places. At their little podium or where the action is, So try not to be at either of those two places.

4) A busy night at the casino is a good night at the casino. Do I need to explain?

5) If you have basic stradegy mastered and a card count and you go to one place more than once every month you are probally going there to often.

I hope these tips are useful and anything added or disputed would be appreciated.
 

phantom007

Well-Known Member
Re: Disgusting Post!

Mr. Kevin, you give advice based on "tips I've learned over the years". I disagree on many issues. Forgive me for my lack of computer skills...I cannot "repost" your statements, then respond, therefore:

1. "Once you start playing perfect Basic Strategy, you are giving yourself away".....WRONG!.....perfect BS gives the house an advantage! Many ploppy's play perfect 6D BS, on SD and DD. I often play with an "Advice Card" that I have purchased in EACH casino's gift shop, showing me perfect BS play. When others ask ME for advice, I just show them the card! Works pretty good until I don't split A's against 2 at TC=-8, but what the hell.

Certainly, Kevin, you point out plays that Mr. Ian Anderson suggests in "Burning the Tables" suggests that we sacrifice....those of us with limited bankrolls/time just have to get Greedy, and play appropriately.

2. "Chase tolerant Dealers"...WRONG!...Yes, We often find Dealers who, with proper tipping, are 'understanding'....IMHO, looks both STUPID and OBVIOUS to follow same from a $25 Table, to a $5 Table, then to a $100 Table. When I have a choice, I try to play at Stores wherein, less breaks, the same Dealer has the same table throughout his/her shift. If you tip properly, "Break Dealers", via whispers, nods, and/or flat-out exclaimations, are often helpful to your cause as well.

3. "Seek NEW Dealers"...WRONG!....their mistakes go both ways! Their over-pays will NOT make up for under-pays and/or LESS hands/hr. I am already counting cards, and often, 1-2 Side-counts...the last thing I want to be pre-occupied with is accurate pay-offs...certainly, I will visually check each p/o, but I do not want to have to COUNT each one!

4. "PC's Location"...DO NOT TOTALLY DISAGREE...always best to be a Red-Green player in a sea of Black-Purple! However, if Solo, or with other RG's, just as soon have PC at my side, showing me pictures of kids, listening to his/her marital problems, etc. Yes, I will BLOW ALL Side-Counts, and have to drop back to a "AT A GLANCE" approach for CC'ing, but I will keep a small +EV, AND I WILL KEEP PLAYING!

5. "Busy Casino Night = Good Casino Night"...NOT ALWAYS! Yes, easy to hide in the crowd...#30 hands/hour, though, even with EXPERT play, would create a +EV so LOW that I would likely revert back to PROGRESSIVE CRAPS!

6. "Good Players should not go to same Casino more than once per month"...OK, I AGREE with this one, in theory, but it kind of depends on "NET Results".

In Closing, Mr. Kevin, you asked for additions and/or disputes of your statements. I have provided same.

In return, Sir, please identify what Casino that you represent. I want to play there!

phantom007.
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
Re: Disgusting Post!

> I often play with an "Advice Card" that I have purchased in EACH casino's gift
> shop, showing me perfect BS play. When others ask ME for advice, I just show
> them the card! Works pretty good until I don't split A's against 2 at TC=-8,
> but what the hell.

I love using this trick too. With any BS deviations, just shake your head at the card and say "This thing must be wrong!" or "I'm not going to hit my 16 with this much money on the table! I'll play it safe." You will look like the average hunch player.

> those of us with limited bankrolls/time just have to get Greedy, and play
> appropriately.

Very true. I've had dealers call out "Doubling on 18" when I had A,7 vs 6, but the pit doesn't even care. I've found that most pits don't care about much of what goes on at the tables. If you buy in small enough they simply wave off the "Changing $xx" call. Most of the time they don't even turn their heads when they hear "Checks Play!" I have found plenty of places where you don't need any camo at all (at least at the red/green chip level). Why bother?

> If you tip properly, "Break Dealers", via whispers, nods, and/or flat-out
> exclaimations, are often helpful to your cause as well.

When a new dealer takes over they will usually ask how everyone is doing. I will often point the tips behind the discard tray and say something like "Well, Joe was doing better than me! Maybe if I hit a good streak we can both make as much as him!" I will say this even if all the tips were given by someone else!

> "Seek NEW Dealers"...WRONG!....their mistakes go both ways!

Too true. Just two weeks ago a had a huge problem with this. I bought in for $60. I handed the dealer three $20 bills. He called out "Changing $60" and proceeded to slide me $30 in chips. Needless to say, the PB was hounding the table for the rest of her shift.

Again last week I colored up $85 in chips at the table. The dealer neatly made 3 stacks of $25 in reds and put the other two next to it. He looked it all over, thought about it for a minute, and slid me one green along with the two reds. Somehow a stack of five $5 chips is worth about $8.33 in his mind. I double checked the rack but didn't see any $1.67 chips.

> ...just as soon have PC at my side, showing me pictures of kids, listening to
> his/her marital problems, etc.

Although having a PC next to me always makes me nervous, it can be a good thing if you know how to handle it. At least you will know where they are and where they're looking. This is where having a partner can come in handy. They can engage the PC and keep their attention away from your bets. It's the next best thing to tying a bell around their necks (which I don't recommend).

> "Busy Casino Night = Good Casino Night"...NOT ALWAYS!

This really depends on the player's playing style. In a crowded casino it would be easier to "Wong around" (even in and out of pitch games). If you're stuck with shoe games this might be your best approach.

> "Good Players should not go to same Casino more than once per month"

I completely disagree. One of my favorite spots to play lets me get away with murder simply because they know me. I know the pit and many of the dealers by name. I even know a few of the regular players there. The dealers don't always call out everything because they know that I will occasionally tip them when the count is high. The pit doesn't even watch me play becuase they have already pegged me as one of their "regulars".

Although most of Kevin's advice looks good on paper (or "on monitor"), actual casino experience will teach you that there are many ways to overcome these problems with better results. You just have to get your feet wet in order to find the best way to get them dry.

-Sonny-
 

Kevin

Member
Re: Disgusting Post!

I appreciate your critisism and guess depending on casino's and personal experience everyone is going to have different views on these issues. The basic stradegy card is kind of clever but if the pit bosses aren't even turning their head on you when doubling on soft 18 or when cheques in play then you dont need to disguise your play anyways. Please let me know where a regular can come in count cards and play good basic stradegy and the pit bosses dont even turn a head. Sounds like a casino I want to play at. But as far as places that do sweat the action I think my tips can be usueful. And if you cant keep an accurate count and make sure the dealer is paying you correctly then you need practice before you bet any real money anyways.
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
Re: Disgusting Post!

> I appreciate your critisism and guess depending on casino's and personal
> experience everyone is going to have different views on these issues.

Yes. Each casino will have different games and different levels of heat. It is every player's job to choose which casinos are right for his/her playing style. Different players will fit in at certain clubs more than others. However, a good counter can fit in wherever he wants.

> Please let me know where a regular can come in count cards and play good
> basic stradegy and the pit bosses dont even turn a head. Sounds like a casino
> I want to play at.

It is!

Since I am a low stakes player, I prefer the smaller clubs in Vegas. Have you ever been to the Klondike, Bighorn, or Mahoney's Silver Nugget? These places usually only have 2-3 tables open at a time, so you get to meet and schmooze with the regulars constantly. They always have $2-$3 minimums, and the dealers (and sometimes pit crew) are often either new employees who don't know the ropes yet or apathetic old-timers who have worked there so long that they gave up all hope of ever leaving. Either way, they're just trying to get through the day and looking for anybody they can joke around with to help pass the time. I've heard of bosses who constantly talk to counters in order to distract them from counting, but counters distracting bosses was new to me!

Also, the Bighorn offers late surrender and double down on ANY NUMBER of cards! This means that if you are dealt 3,2 and hit for an A and 5, you can now double down with a nice big count! Most people (even the locals) don't know about this. A good counter does his research!

Be careful, though. Some of the places I mentioned are were where I had problems buying in and coloring up. Since you like untrained dealers so much, you should LOVE these places! Often times you can convince them to show you the burn card or deal deeper into the deck because they don't know any better. I would be cautious at the Klondike though. Their pit is unaware but they have one dealer who will shuffle up on you (the only time I've ever seen counter measures). Again, do your research to find out which dealers are worthwhile.

-Sonny-

P.S.- If you ever go to Mahoney's, look up for the eye-in-the-sky...or should I say, the hole-cut-in-the-ceiling-with-a-video-camera-sticking-out. It's comical.
 

Kevin

Member
Re: Disgusting Post!

This is a great post and I appreciate it. Im from Northern Cal so I usually have to go to Reno to avoid the Indian Casino 6 decks. To me anything after two decks is like fishing waiting for a bite. I plan on taking a vacation to LV and will take your advice... THANKS
 

Sonny

Well-Known Member
Re: Disgusting Post!

> Im from Northern Cal so I usually have to go to Reno to avoid the Indian
> Casino 6 decks.

I've only been to Reno once. I liked the town a lot, but didn't find many games I wanted to play. I didn't look very hard though. Sparks, on the other hand, was heavenly.

> To me anything after two decks is like fishing waiting for a bite.

Very well said! I hate losing several big bets and knowing that I may not get another chance to win them back for another hour or so. It just feels like too much wasted time to me.

> I plan on taking a vacation to LV and will take your advice... THANKS

Good luck. Let us know how it goes!

-Sonny-
 
Top