Do you ever spread to 3 hands?

[21forme]

I did it for the first time this week.

Count was sky high and the shoe was almost over (or at least I thought so.) Couldn't see the cut card from where I was sitting and turned out we got 2 more rounds in. It was a little nerve wracking one round (8U on each hand prior to splits, etc), with splitting 7s three times one hand, and doubling down when I pulled a 3 and 4 on two of them. Worked out well, fortunately.

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

Not three, only two.

Maybe it's just paranoia but I'd figure a three spot bet would be a sign of a counter. Then again maybe not. It definitely draws attention though.

The good thing about multiple spots is that it increases the chances of splitting opportunities in favorable counts. So instead of playing two hands I'm often splitting nines, eights, maybe even tens. That and doubling down additional cards in DAS.

Of course splitting tens is another sign of a counter. That's the reason i like to split a few low bets on tens early on in the shoe. Creates the precedent of splitting tens when I couldn't possibly be having any advantage. My guess though is that those with the "eye in the sky" probably don't review my play at all. So maybe camouflage isn't all that necessary.

 

[ChefJJ]

I did it for the first time this week.

Count was sky high and the shoe was almost over (or at least I thought so.) Couldn't see the cut card from where I was sitting and turned out we got 2 more rounds in. It was a little nerve wracking one round (8U on each hand prior to splits, etc), with splitting 7s three times one hand, and doubling down when I pulled a 3 and 4 on two of them. Worked out well, fortunately.

I have not gone to 3, so my question to you or anyone for that matter has to do with bet sizing and all that. If I'm spreading 1-10 and the situation calls for an 8u bet, or even a max bet; should I have an 8u or max out there for all 3 spots, cut it into thirds, or maybe go with 5u bets for some cover?

This has been discussed around here, but not sure with regard to playing 3 spots.

good luck

 

[ChefJJ]

I may have found the answer myself, from ZG:

Flux/risk-wise speaking, you can bet an aggregate of 150% your one hand bet, spread over two hands equally, with no risk increase. zg

So, if conditions called for an 8u bet, one could safely play 3 spots @ 4u each?

 

[Sonny]

If I'm spreading 1-10 and the situation calls for an 8u bet, or even a max bet; should I have an 8u or max out there for all 3 spots, cut it into thirds, or maybe go with 5u bets for some cover?

The optimal bet would be 57% of your total bet on each hand, although rounding down to 50% often is easier to calculate at the tables. Instead of an 8-unit bet you could play 3 hands of 4.5 units. That would keep your RoR the same but your EV would increase because you have more money on the table in a +EV situation. Here’s a link to the nitty-gritty:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?p=16488

Alternatively you could just divide your regular bet into thirds and play with the same EV but lower risk.

-Sonny-

 

[ChefJJ]

Great, Sonny. Thanks for the research.

 

[Kasi]

That would keep your RoR the same but your EV would increase because you have more money on the table in a +EV situation.

Would you say standard deviation would/could increase even though ROR might be the same?

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

The optimal bet would be 57% of your total bet on each hand, although rounding down to 50% often is easier to calculate at the tables. Instead of an 8-unit bet you could play 3 hands of 4.5 units. That would keep your RoR the same but your EV would increase because you have more money on the table in a +EV situation. Here’s a link to the nitty-gritty:

http://www.blackjackinfo.com/bb/showthread.php?p=16488

Alternatively you could just divide your regular bet into thirds and play with the same EV but lower risk.

-Sonny-

Hmmm,

I wonder if in the long haul playing three hands in High T/C would dilute the count too quickly. Same as filling the small hand held deck games up with extra ploppies. More likely to pull three seventeens against dealers 20. Or a pair of stiffs. Maybe three stiffs.

 

[21forme]

I was praying that the dealer didn't get a BJ.

 

[zengrifter]

I may have found the answer myself, from ZG:

Flux/risk-wise speaking, you can bet an aggregate of 150% your one hand bet, spread over two hands equally, with no risk increase. zg

So, if conditions called for an 8u bet, one could safely play 3 spots @ 4u each?

I use 150% across TWO hands and 180% across THREE.
(the correct #s are 142% and 170% respectively). zg

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

I was praying that the dealer didn't get a BJ.

Yeah that's what I'd be thinking.

They say not to play unless you have an expendable bankroll. And of course this is true. However every once in a while I've found I play better with my back against the wall.

Blackjack has recently turned into my only predictable source of income. Didn't want that to happen. At least not at the present time. However the floor fell out of my business this past month.

So 21 has been the only real game in town. For me lately anyway.

 

[zengrifter]

Hmmm,
I wonder if in the long haul playing three hands in High T/C would dilute the count too quickly. Same as filling the small hand held deck games up with extra ploppies. More likely to pull three seventeens against dealers 20. Or a pair of stiffs. Maybe three stiffs.

You better go back and hit the books hard if your understanding is this far off.

Yes it does "dilute" the deck but not the way you wonder. The key to the initial post is that he KNEW it was likely to be the last round.

In general, the decision to play 1-2-3 hands must take into account the number of other spots in play, and whether its the last round. zg

 

[zengrifter]

Yeah that's what I'd be thinking.

They say not to play unless you have an expendable bankroll. And of course this is true. However every once in a while I've found I play better with my back against the wall.

Blackjack has recently turned into my only predictable source of income. Didn't want that to happen. At least not at the present time. However the floor fell out of my business this past month.

So 21 has been the only real game in town. For me lately anyway.

Then you better get it together quickly because a lot of misunderstanding shows through your BJ posts. zg

 

[ChefJJ]

I use 150% across TWO hands and 180% across THREE.
(the correct #s are 142% and 170% respectively). zg

Ahh, thanks ZG...the devil's in the details. :devil:

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

Then you better get it together quickly because a lot of misunderstanding shows through your BJ posts. zg

Like what?

You raise your bet in increments according to the T/C and adjusted for the bankroll. When it dips you either reduce or leave for the buffet. What's so complicated about that?

Anything else we need to know? Split aces always? Nines most of the time etc?.

It's not such a big deal. Seems more a matter of having the nerves and disposition to stick it out through the long haul.

 

[zengrifter]

Like what?

You raise your bet in increments according to the T/C and adjusted for the bankroll. When it dips you either reduce or leave for the buffet. What's so complicated about that?

Anything else we need to know? Split aces always? Nines most of the time etc?.

It's not such a big deal. Seems more a matter of having the nerves and disposition to stick it out through the long haul.

My post may have been harsh, lets check your play:

1. Current BR & max-bet size & spread?
2. System & # indices ?
3. #Decks, typical session?
4. Play style, wong/all?

 

[AnIrishmannot2brite]

My post may have been harsh, lets check your play:

1. Current BR & max-bet size & spread?
2. System & # indices ?
3. #Decks, typical session?
4. Play style, wong/all?

I play only some of the most beatable games around. From what people here tell me they are. from my own experience too. So winnable in fact that I almost never have a losing round.

The 6D shoe games are typically cut at 80%

DD at 70 to 90%. yes it is THAT good.

My problem has been threefold:

Lacking the drive to stay at these tables and fleece the joint.

Concern that i may get 86'ed if I do.

Concern that if I do get bounced I might have to drive a hell of a lot further to find these same superlative games. If indeed they even exist anywhere else.

My spread is usually 1 - 6. Each unit is only five clams. Except on the DD which is ten bucks. Even then I rarely go past six units. Or three split on two spots. Occasionally branching out to 1 - 8

Bankroll of 5K.

I mostly start only at the beginning of shoes. There is no mid game entry on the pitched games. So i only wong out, hardly ever in. Take a bathroom or buffet break when things drop. A a mere five bucks a minimum bet, so I may simply stay in a mildly negative shoe until the very end.

 

[Sonny]

Would you say standard deviation would/could increase even though ROR might be the same?

Yes. You are putting more money on the table so your short-term variance (standard deviation) will be larger but your long-term variance (risk of ruin) will be the same. You will experience larger swings during each session but they will smooth out over time. Your higher EV will make your overall risk come back down.

-Sonny-

 

[moo321]

I play 3 hands every once in awhile. Usually just if I'm heads up or one other player is at the table. Tends to draw less ploppy-heat. Good for the bankroll, though.