Does BS change

[Warlord]

I am wondering if BS changes regardless of the count?

I was reading Snyders "the big Bok of BJ" and read this:
"The basic strategy decision on a 16 versus a 10 is so close that no one really knew for sure how to play it untill computers figured out all the possibilities. Here's a better rule for perfectionists that will almost always be correct: if you have a two-card 16, hit. If you have a three-card 16, stand if any of your cards is a 4 or 5."

I was practicing and had a 2-4 versus an Ace. I hit for a 7 then hit again for a 3 (2,4,7,3=16 vs. A)

Do I still hit this?

 

[beyondbj]

will it be better if there are more small card than pictures then stand a 16 vs 10

if there is the same small card as picture also stand , only if there is no 4 or 5 on the table then hit it

bs also change for 12 vs 4 , hit it if pictures are more

 

[shadroch]

I am wondering if BS changes regardless of the count?

I was reading Snyders "the big Bok of BJ" and read this:
"The basic strategy decision on a 16 versus a 10 is so close that no one really knew for sure how to play it untill computers figured out all the possibilities. Here's a better rule for perfectionists that will almost always be correct: if you have a two-card 16, hit. If you have a three-card 16, stand if any of your cards is a 4 or 5."

I was practicing and had a 2-4 versus an Ace. I hit for a 7 then hit again for a 3 (2,4,7,3=16 vs. A)

Do I still hit this?

When the dealer has an Ace,he will bust only 17% of the time. With a four card 16,your next card will bust you 8 out of 13 times.In the long run,hitting the 16 against an Ace will work better than standing.
Beyond BJ is evidently talking about a beginners( non-counters)approach.He's evidently reading Blackjack Bluebook II, but not quite grasping it yet.

 

[cardcounter0]

The basic strategy decision on a 16 versus a 10 ....

I was practicing and had a 2-4 versus an Ace ....

Do you see the difference?

Stand 16 vs T when multicard with a 4 or 5.
Hit 16 vs A regardless.

 

[Jeff Dubya]

I am wondering if BS changes regardless of the count?

I was reading Snyders "the big Bok of BJ" and read this:
"The basic strategy decision on a 16 versus a 10 is so close that no one really knew for sure how to play it untill computers figured out all the possibilities. Here's a better rule for perfectionists that will almost always be correct: if you have a two-card 16, hit. If you have a three-card 16, stand if any of your cards is a 4 or 5."

I was practicing and had a 2-4 versus an Ace. I hit for a 7 then hit again for a 3 (2,4,7,3=16 vs. A)

Do I still hit this?

This is composition-sensitive blackjack, Fred Renzey refers to this as "The Rule of 45" In fairness, it's NOT basic strategy.

Whatever you decide to do, the most critical thing is to play it consistently ALL THE TIME.

 

[Cardcounter]

BS never changes!

Basic stragedy never changes that is why it is called basic stragedy. Basic Stragedy stats to hit 16 vs a 10 composition stragedy takes into account the cards you have in your hand while basic stragedy is the overall best play for the hand. Composition stragedy knows the difference between 4-4-4-4 vs a 10 and 10-6 vs a 10 basic stragedy does not make that distinction. Composition stragedy on 4-4-4-4 vs a 10 would say stay with 6 decks or less and basic stragedy would say hit 16 vs a 10.

 

[GeorgeD]

Can't find my copy of Renzey's book, but my recollection is "Rule of 45" and other composition sensitive plays only apply to singe or double deck. I didn't think a couple of 4's or 5's on deck don't matter enough to change BS.

This is composition-sensitive blackjack, Fred Renzey refers to this as "The Rule of 45" In fairness, it's NOT basic strategy.

Whatever you decide to do, the most critical thing is to play it consistently ALL THE TIME.

 

[N&B]

The old Blackjack 5.0 DOS program will clear this up in an instant. I used to run it occasionally on Windows (I'm in linuxland now) for situations like this.

Rule of 45 applies to 2-8 decks. So does the rule of 6 (Hit 16 vs X if 3 card 16 has a 6... the EXCEPTION being 5-5-6).

Being compositional dependencies, they are not Basic Strategy decisions, but one's that a good Basic player should learn.

 

[Kasi]

Can't find my copy of Renzey's book, but my recollection is "Rule of 45" and other composition sensitive plays only apply to singe or double deck. I didn't think a couple of 4's or 5's on deck don't matter enough to change BS.

Well they don't matter enough to change total-dependent BS. Doesn't mean one couldn't add it as another BS rule if one chose to as an exception to the basic rule of always hit 16 vs 10.

But there are probably more of these comp-dependent plays in single deck like you say. Like stand 7,5 & 8,4 vs 3 even though BS would say hit 12 vs 3.

Or 10,2 vs 4 or 6, even 10,3 vs 2 are hits in SD S17. But these are 2-card comp-dependent plays that, if one chose to define BS this way rather than total-dependent, why not?

And alot more 3-card comp-dependent plays for 15 vs 10 or 16 vs 9, you'd never do in multi-deck.

So, if one ever sees a "ploppy" standing on a multi-card 16 vs 10, he's likely actually making the overall right play at the time lol.

 

[Kasi]

Rule of 45 applies to 2-8 decks. So does the rule of 6 (Hit 16 vs X if 3 card 16 has a 6... the EXCEPTION being 5-5-6).

Which makes 6,6,4 vs 10 the exception to the rule of 4,5

 

[TheApprentice]

Which makes 6,6,4 vs 10 the exception to the rule of 4,5

The Rule of 45 works due to the fact that when you see a 4 or 5 already making up your own hand, you've burned those cards from the potential cards you will draw from the deck. Since a 4 or 5 are the best cards you could hope for when holding a 16, losing even 1 or 2 of them from play hurts your chances of winning the hand vs dealer X up. This effect is way more pronounced with fewer decks, but still effects 6,8 deck games, according to Renzey in BJBBII.

 

[Kasi]

The Rule of 45 works due to the fact that when you see a 4 or 5 already making up your own hand, you've burned those cards from the potential cards you will draw from the deck. Since a 4 or 5 are the best cards you could hope for when holding a 16, losing even 1 or 2 of them from play hurts your chances of winning the hand vs dealer X up. This effect is way more pronounced with fewer decks, but still effects 6,8 deck games, according to Renzey in BJBBII.

Well, I realize all that, but, just in case, one actually does hit a 6,6,4 vs 10 1 thru 8 decks with S17. It actually is the exception to the rule of 45 but agrees with the rule of 6 lol. I guess it might even make a CC make the wrong play with a RC of +2 lol.

I'm not sure but I think 10,4,2 vs 10 in 8D S17 might also be very very marginally a hit. But a stand at least 1 thru 4 decks with S17. Not sure about 6D lol.

None of this makes the rule "always hit a total of 16 vs 10" wrong. Or the rule "always hit a 3-card 16 vs 10 if it has a 4 or a 5 in it" wrong. Or the rule "always hit a 3-card 16 vs 10 if it has a 6 in it" wrong.

They are all "right" overall and one can't lose by following them. If you want to also learn the exceptions to the "rules", that's cool too.

Then, 5 or 10 years from now, go ahead and blow all that money you saved knowing all this on a half-cup of coffee. You earned it.

I've already had my free half-cup of coffee :grin: