Does the dealer have the responsibility of spotting counters?

[ArcticInferno]

In Las Vegas casinos, does the dealer watch for suspicious betting patterns?
Or does the dealer mechanically deal out the cards without regards to the players
betting patterns?
Of course the pit boss must scrutinize everyone and zero-in on suspicious players,
but what about the dealers?
I know that the petal that the dealer steps on or the button under the table,
those things are all myths.
When the dealer suspects suspicious betting patterns, does the dealer alert the pit boss?
I don't think that the security camera can watch for and spot suspicious betting patterns
because you really have to be on the floor at the table to watch the chips and the cards.
Why do I ask? I've noticed that male dealers (as opposed to female) tend to give me
funny looks when the ten-value cards start pouring out as soon as I abruptly increase
the bet.
Also, non-conversant foreign (Asian) dealers seem to not care as to what's going on.
If the dealers have the responsibility of alerting the pit boss, then foreign (Asian) female
dealers don't seem to be doing a good job.
Also, the relief dealers, the dealers who give the 20 minute-breaks to the regular dealers,
seem to care even less.
One time, I increased my bet from $15 (one hand) to two hands of $150 each and won
both hands (face cards in both hands), and the relief dealer didn't even raise an eye brow.
She simply moved over to the next table and gave the other dealer the 20-minute break.
If the dealer does have the responsibility of spotting counters, then I would stick with
foreign female dealers.
If the dealer doesn't have the responsibility of spotting counters,
then I would have more latitude.
Also, non-conversant foreign dealers don't chit-chat and waste my time.

 

[Pro21]

It is not the dealer's responsibility, but there are some brown nosing dealers who want to show the boss how smart they are so they will rat people out. Some may be bucking for a promotion to the floor.

 

[21gunsalute]

The dealers are getting paid minimum wage. The only thing they're going to care about is whether you're tipping or not. Do you really think they'd take on the responsibility for ratting out card counters who are probably tipping them well for no extra money? I think not.

 

[Pro21]

No dealer is ever satisfied with the amount of tips a card counter can give them. That is if the card counter tips at all.

 

[MartyAce]

I know of a particular joint where one of their best dealers is routinely sent in to table where players are significantly up (this joint it may be $1k+, depending on the action), and they like to send him in because he knows how to count and knows perfect BS as well as illustrious 18.

Now does he go back and say they are counting etc? No, mostly because he never finds anyone counting. Most of the time they ask him how they play, and he just says they are playing well. I'm not sure what he would do if he found someone else counting.

But I'm just throwing out an isolated situation, because I know the fella.

We were talking about this in the chat the other night. I answered this question the long way.

To understand who is suppose to be spotting counters you need to look at the big picture and who has what responsibilities.

Let's start from bottom up: (for our sake we'll skip the dual rate as their are operating as only one role at a time)

Dealer - The dealer's primary responsibility is to deal the games according to the state gaming regulations. This is including correct payouts, knowledge of the game,shuffling skill (if required). They are in my opinion suppose to be customer service people, and most are. But you run into the @$$ every now and then.

Pit Supervisors (among other names) - The casino pit supervisor job includes the following: To supervise operation of several table games, observe both customers AND casino personnel for dishonest activities. However, the latter part of that last sentence is their biggest role. In my opinion their biggest role is making sure the dealer is doing their job correctly and according to gaming regulations. They watch the payouts for any improper amounts. At same time they are going writing down how much you bought in for, how much you are leaving for, and estimate an average bet. Remember, these guys can easily be responsible for 6 tables at once. LAST in their role, unless they are just out to get people, is to evaluate suspected advantage players.

Assistant Floor Manager or Shift Manager (or THE floor manager) : These guys have tons of duties. They act as a team leader insuring that all supervisors are happy and motivated, including their hours they work. Many times these people are not people persons, because its not part of their job to interact with the customer (although many do). They basically oversee the entire casino operations at/during their shift, in many casinos, these fellas can be the highest person on the food chain in the casino at any one point.

(Independent of the rest of the hierarchy)

Eye in the Sky - Eye in the sky is pretty self explanatory. They should be trained in ways to spot cheaters in the casino. Whether that be persons capping bets, stealing other players chips, or manipulating a game in order to gain an unfair advantage. Many times they act independent of the rest of the casino and from my understanding many times dealers/supervisors don't even know what they look like or their names.

I forget the name of this last group, but they are also independent of everyone else in the casino, and they are usually undercover (armed) gaming commission police force in a way. Their job is basically to oversee everything and in a way act as another balance int he casino system to make sure everything is fair.

And I'm spent! I choose leave out higher then floor manager as I don't think they are necessary to include in my already tangent of this topic. I encourage some of the more seasoned veterans to add/amend what I have already started.

-Marty

 

[FLASH1296]

Dealers will often seek to curry favor with Pit Critters by policing games for them. They may not want his job. Some do. Some don't. There are small favors that the Pit can do for the dealers.

Dealers earn more than the floorpersons, at least in the top joints.
That most often does not hold in more commonplace casinos.

In. A.C. for instance, the "floor" earns from $175 to $200 a shift, depending on the casino.

Dealers in A.C. lately have been earning between $19 and $25 per hour, (tokes and minimum wage combined)

A decade ago earnings were about 50% higher !

 

[ArcticInferno]

Before I learned about the camouflage plays and the Oscar winning routines,
etc., I got spotted counting at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.
The dealer was switched to someone else who dealt out the cards so-ooo fast
that you couldn't possible keep up with her.
The dealer was not only fast with her hands, but also with her calculations and payouts.
There was another player at the table who loudly complained to the pit boss about
the breakneck speed, and then he left the table. I, too, left the table.
Later I went to another table with an elderly dealer, and soon, the dealer was
switched to a different dealer who was younger and much faster.
Her blazing hands were a mere blur as she dealt out the hands.
She made obvious decisions on hitting/standing for me without asking,
e.g. stand 19 vs 6, or hit 8 vs 10, etc. The chips were either taken in or paid out,
and then the cards were *quickly* threw into the discard tray.
The phenomenal speed was absolutely amazing, and I quickly lost count.
If the dealer has no responsibility to protect the casino from card counters,
then why would they have "harassed" me like that?
By the way, for those who don't know about tips, the dealers don't get the tips that
you give them. The tips go into a general pot, and every dealer gets an equal share.

 

[creeping panther]

Artic

Before I learned about the camouflage plays and the Oscar winning routines,
etc., I got spotted counting at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.
The dealer was switched to someone else who dealt out the cards so-ooo fast
that you couldn't possible keep up with her.
The dealer was not only fast with her hands, but also with her calculations and payouts.
There was another player at the table who loudly complained to the pit boss about
the breakneck speed, and then he left the table. I, too, left the table.
Later I went to another table with an elderly dealer, and soon, the dealer was
switched to a different dealer who was younger and much faster.
Her blazing hands were a mere blur as she dealt out the hands.
She made obvious decisions on hitting/standing for me without asking,
e.g. stand 19 vs 6, or hit 8 vs 10, etc. The chips were either taken in or paid out,
and then the cards were *quickly* threw into the discard tray.
The phenomenal speed was absolutely amazing, and I quickly lost count.
If the dealer has no responsibility to protect the casino from card counters,
then why would they have "harassed" me like that?
By the way, for those who don't know about tips, the dealers don't get the tips that
you give them. The tips go into a general pot, and every dealer gets an equal share.

And you let her play your hands for you????

Grow a set buddy

CP

 

[21Menace]

Do dealers really share their tips??

 

[StandardDeviant]

She made obvious decisions on hitting/standing for me without asking, e.g. stand 19 vs 6, or hit 8 vs 10, etc. The chips were either taken in or paid out, and then the cards were *quickly* threw into the discard tray.

Just tell her not to play your hands and she will stop. You (should) control the pace of the game.

Later, when you get better at counting, you'll love dealers like this. They move the game right along.

 

[StandardDeviant]

Do dealers really share their tips??

Do you ever see your dealer take her tips with her when she leaves the table??

 

[no_fear]

At the casinos by me some dealers have their own tip box. They keep those tips, the rest are shared. To get a tip box you have to be really committed though.

 

[StandardDeviant]

At the casinos by me some dealers have their own tip box. They keep those tips, the rest are shared. To get a tip box you have to be really committed though.

Interesting. Here I sometimes see them put them in a box, and sometimes in a little cylinder. I'm not sure of the difference. I'll have to pay more attention!

 

[MartyAce]

Interesting. Here I sometimes see them put them in a box, and sometimes in a little cylinder. I'm not sure of the difference. I'll have to pay more attention!

The little cylinder is used so when it fills up they can color those chips up to keep the smaller chips on the table.

Example is a quarter table, they may have 1-2 slots of red chips, and they want to keep these chips on the table.

 

[FLASH1296]

I look for hyper-speed dealers.

I use a Level Two count and I don't lose count.

The faster they deal the more hands per hour I get to play.

If some people do not want to play at that dealer's table is an additional benefit.

 

[creeping panther]

Speed

I look for hyper-speed dealers.

I use a Level Two count and I don't lose count.

The faster they deal the more hands per hour I get to play.

If some people do not want to play at that dealer's table is an additional benefit.

Flash, you are the man!!:gaga:

CP

 

[ihate17]

Love to let the dealer play for me

And you let her play your hands for you????

Grow a set buddy

CP

The dealer can play all my obvious (to me) hands at super speed. Yes I am staying on hard 18, hitting my total of 6 etc. I just let her go on her own and eventually I will get that soft 18 or pair 9,9 or some other hand where what I would have done is different than what she takes for granted and that is why these dealers are very beneificial.
Dozens of times, many recently, on soft 18 this kind of dealer takes my staying for granted vs their big card. The strategy here is to just keep looking down at your card, as it will appear on review that you are thinking about the hand and made no signal. Should the dealer turn a higher hand or hit and make a higher hand, you just tell her that you never signaled to stay and you generally hit soft 18 vs high cards.
The results can be a win, killing of the hand or even a loss (but you would have lost anyway). Sometimes a pissed off dealer but always a dealer that during her remaining time at the table will slow down and make sure she sees a signal from you.

ihate17