Double 10 vs 10

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SystemsTrader

Well-Known Member
I am trying to understand the theory behind this move? When the count calls for doubling a 10 vs 10 why do we do this play? It just seems like it should be a push over the long run since its an even play considering we both have the same amount. Perhaps I'm asking this question because I've lost more with this move than I have won and of course it is always with your max bet out. Is it just because the sims tell us to or maybe our edge is in the fact that the dealer does not have the ace underneath but we can draw the ace next?

I will continue to play this move correctly and still double when called for but I would just like to understand the reason for doing it, any help would be appreciated?
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
SystemsTrader said:
I am trying to understand the theory behind this move? When the count calls for doubling a 10 vs 10 why do we do this play? It just seems like it should be a push over the long run since its an even play considering we both have the same amount. Perhaps I'm asking this question because I've lost more with this move than I have won and of course it is always with your max bet out. Is it just because the sims tell us to or maybe our edge is in the fact that the dealer does not have the ace underneath but we can draw the ace next?

I will continue to play this move correctly and still double when called for but I would just like to understand the reason for doing it, any help would be appreciated?
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In my limited experience I think I have won every single time I have doubled a ten vs ten.
 
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ortango

Well-Known Member
I believe strategy plays all boil down to two things, your chance of a pat hand and the dealer busting. Basically you are exploiting the dealers increased chances of busting when the count is high. Now, you and both have the same chance of getting a 20 out of it. But, there is a larger chance to for him to bust with a stiff, and I would assume that its bigger than your chances of getting a stiff and him making a pat.
 
Automatic Monkey

Automatic Monkey

Banned
You do have the advantage, especially with an ace-reckoning count. Think of it this way- the four possibilities you can get are an ace, a ten, a 7-8, or a stiff card. Same for the dealer's down card, except you know the dealer doesn't have an ace. That gives you a little help right there. Also with all those high cards left, if the dealer has to draw he is kind of screwed. The odds simply work out that you will win more money doing it than not doing it if the count is high enough.

Keep in mind this is a high variance play, one of the few where there is a significant difference between the absolute and the risk-averse index. And you will almost always be doing it with a max bet out. So make sure you are using the risk-averse index for whatever count you are using. Probably around +5 in High-Low.
 
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Tom007

Well-Known Member
what about 10 vs ace I believe its the same index # as 10 vs 10 for hi low, the problem iI have is I'm playing a no hole card game. Do I take insurance and double? Thanks in advance guys.
 
zengrifter

zengrifter

Banned
SystemsTrader said:
I am trying to understand the theory behind this move? When the count calls for doubling a 10 vs 10 why do we do this play? It just seems like it should be a push over the long run since its an even play considering we both have the same amount. Perhaps I'm asking this question because I've lost more with this move than I have won and of course it is always with your max bet out. Is it just because the sims tell us to or maybe our edge is in the fact that the dealer does not have the ace underneath but we can draw the ace next?

I will continue to play this move correctly and still double when called for but I would just like to understand the reason for doing it, any help would be appreciated?
Click to expand...
If you take your 10vs10 index and increase it by 75% you will be better off. (example +4 becomes +7). zg
 
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Preston

Well-Known Member
Tom007 said:
what about 10 vs ace I believe its the same index # as 10 vs 10 for hi low, the problem iI have is I'm playing a no hole card game. Do I take insurance and double? Thanks in advance guys.
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the no hole card is the part the sucks. since I'm used to the american version I can only speak from that experience. HOWEVER...

if I'm in a high + count and the dealer has an A up I take the insurance, and if I have a 10 I will double. Because if the dealer doesn't have the 10, the odds are in my favor that I will draw a 10.

An A to me is more deadly in a negative count than a positive.
 
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BJLover

Well-Known Member
no hole card

the casinos i play in have no hole card, is it still the correct play i.e doubling??
 
sagefr0g

sagefr0g

Well-Known Member
zengrifter said:
If you take your 10vs10 index and increase it by 75% you will be better off. (example +4 becomes +7). zg
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how much better off? what about doubling 10vsA index? would a referance for this be Schlesinger's Blackjack Attack risk averse subject matter?

best regards,
mr fr0g :D
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
sagefr0g said:
how much better off? what about doubling 10vsA index? would a referance for this be Schlesinger's Blackjack Attack risk averse subject matter?

best regards,
mr fr0g :D
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I think you actually lower your EV just slightly, but the risk-averse indexes will lower your variance.

According to zengrifter's post you would treat the 10vsA index the same way and increase the index by 75% to make it a risk-averse index.
 
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ScottH

Well-Known Member
dacium said:
If you are ganna double on TA you might as well right CARD COUNTER on your forhead.
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Actually I thought that using indexes like those would be giveaways that I was counting, but the opposite has been true for me. Everytime I make a BS departure everyone thinks I am the table "idiot". It has only helped my cover, not hurt it. You just have to know how to play off the move.
 
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