Double on A's

[person1125]

Hey I have a question. I don't know if you would ever come across these conditions, but lets say you can double on any two cards, but there is NO splitting of A's. What would you guys say to doubling down on the A's then?? I would think if the dealer has a 5 or 6 up this would be a good option. Also you could double on other dealer up cards depending on the count. I have never read anything about doubling on A's and was just curious.

 

[ChefJJ]

Off the top of my head, I'd say that you shouldn't play a game that won't let you split Aces. If they won't let you split A's, they probably won't let you double on a hand like that. Second thing, I would think you would double S12 vs. 5 or 6, just like S13 or S14...but that doesn't have any math behind it.

Bottom line, that's a split hand with a good favor for the player--so if they won't let you do it, it's a bad game for you.

 

[SystemsTrader]

Hey I have a question. I don't know if you would ever come across these conditions, but lets say you can double on any two cards, but there is NO splitting of A's. What would you guys say to doubling down on the A's then?? I would think if the dealer has a 5 or 6 up this would be a good option. Also you could double on other dealer up cards depending on the count. I have never read anything about doubling on A's and was just curious.

Maybe you could answer the question yourself? Ask yourself under what situation would you double your 12?

 

[RJT]

Maybe you could answer the question yourself? Ask yourself under what situation would you double your 12?

That would have been my first thought too, but you're forgetting one vital piece of information: How many times have you had the option of doubling 12, without any chance of busting?
It's the same pricipal that allows for soft doubling. I haven't done any of the math or sims so i can't be sure but i would have thought the correct play would have been to double against 5, or 6 as standard.
But as stated above, i wouldn't play any game where you couldn't split aces, but i suppose this could arise in a very limited fashion in a game with no re-split of aces (assuming that if you got a pair of A's they'd still allow you to draw to it, which is highly unlikely).

RJT.

 

[EasyRhino]

http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/appendix9-6dh17r4.html

Looks like in a shoe game, it would be slightly advantageous to double (compared to hitting) with A,A vs 6, but not even against 5.

 

[ChefJJ]

Brings Up Another Question

To make my question short: Why are you supposed to hit a S16 & S15 v 4-6; and S14 & S13 v 5-6? It would seem to me that you have the same probability of drawing to 17, 18, 19, 20, or 21 with any of those soft hands. (i.e. there is only one card for each situation that will get you one of those outcomes) So why is there a difference in what situation you double?

 

[person1125]

Yeah I kinda figured that if i couldn't split A's i should stay away. What made me think of it is the caino by me has a 2D game. I thought hey 2D is better than 6D shoe I should play that one. Then i read the rules: no splitting of A's and double only on 10 or 11. (so i wouldn't be able to double my A's anyway) Also I watched and they gave AT MOST 50% pen..... needless to say I will be staying away from this one.

 

[NDN21]

To make my question short: Why are you supposed to hit a S16 & S15 v 4-6; and S14 & S13 v 5-6? It would seem to me that you have the same probability of drawing to 17, 18, 19, 20, or 21 with any of those soft hands. (i.e. there is only one card for each situation that will get you one of those outcomes) So why is there a difference in what situation you double?

You are supposed to double not just hit against S16 & S15 v 4-6; and S14 & S13 v 5-6. The reason is to get more money out there on the table. Blackjack is the only game where you are competing against the house that allows you to put more money on the bet AFTER you have begun play.

One of the reasons to double your bet is that you cannot bust your hand no matter the card you receive on the double so why not double?

If I recall correctly the difference comes from the amount of hands that the dealer busts when they show a particular card, in this case a 4, 5 or 6. The difference isn't necessarily your hand but the dealer's hand.

 

[ChefJJ]

I typed it wrong...obviously I know that you double in those situations--I'm just an idoit that didn't get it out right. Why not double A3 vs. 4 when you have the same chance of making a 17, 18, 19, 20, or 21 as A5? Right?

With A5, 5 gives you 21, 4 gives you 20, 3 gives you 19, 2 gives you 18, and another A gives you 17.

With A3, 7 gives you 21, 6 gives you 20, 5 gives you 19, 4 gives you 18, and 3 gives you 17.

Same probabilities of getting those numbers, same probabilities of getting less than 17. Why have different rules for those two (seemingly similar) situations?

 

[miplet]

I typed it wrong...obviously I know that you double in those situations--I'm just an idoit that didn't get it out right. Why not double A3 vs. 4 when you have the same chance of making a 17, 18, 19, 20, or 21 as A5? Right?

With A5, 5 gives you 21, 4 gives you 20, 3 gives you 19, 2 gives you 18, and another A gives you 17.

With A3, 7 gives you 21, 6 gives you 20, 5 gives you 19, 4 gives you 18, and 3 gives you 17.

Same probabilities of getting those numbers, same probabilities of getting less than 17. Why have different rules for those two (seemingly similar) situations?

It's because you give up the right to take a second hit if you double. With A5, you would only want a another card if you get an ace. With A3, you would want another with a 3 2 or ace.

 

[ChefJJ]

There it is...thanks man. Simple enough!