Doubling or hitting with 11 versus a dealer 10

[Gomar T]

For a single deck game I have found, over a period of many times, that basic strategy that suggests doubling with an 11 versus a dealer upcard of 10 has -- for me -- been a losing strategy.

I seem to lose more hands than I win.

Again, I am talking a single deck game here.

Is the basic strategy decision to double with the 11 rather than merely hitting it a very close call?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Gomar S. Tomlinson

 

[KenSmith]

Not a close call. For a $10 bet, hitting instead of doubling costs you about 57 cents.

 

[Sonny]

Is the basic strategy decision to double with the 11 rather than merely hitting it a very close call?

No, it's not even close. The EV for hitting is 0.133 and the EV for doubling is 0.202. Doubling is much more profitable than hitting. But the probability of winning is still pretty slim. You have about a 51% chance of winning and a 42% chance of losing, so the short-term results may be very frustrating. :flame:

-Sonny-

 

[nightspirit]

No

Doubling 11 vs. 10 has always a greater expaction than hitting. Take a look at this tables http://www.bjmath.com/bjmath/ev/1ds17.htm (Archive copy)

respects,
Nightspirit

 

[Kasi]

For a single deck game I have found, over a period of many times, that basic strategy that suggests doubling with an 11 versus a dealer upcard of 10 has -- for me -- been a losing strategy.

I seem to lose more hands than I win.

Again, I am talking a single deck game here.

Is the basic strategy decision to double with the 11 rather than merely hitting it a very close call?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Gomar S. Tomlinson

Heck, aren't u even supposed to double vs Ace, let alone a 10?

 

[ZMan]

Heck, aren't u even supposed to double vs Ace, let alone a 10?

In 6-deck games...

On whether to Double or Hit on 11 vs. Ace depends on whether dealer hits a soft 17.

If dealer hits a soft 17 (H17) then Double, otherwise Hit.

 

[positiveEV]

On whether to Double or Hit on 11 vs. Ace depends on whether double after split (DAS) is allowed.

IF DAS is allowed then Double, otherwise Hit.

What the hell does it have to do with DAS? DAS changes the way you split, not the way you double.

 

[ZMan]

What the hell does it have to do with DAS? DAS changes the way you split, not the way you double.

Relax. I've corrected my original post.
I meant to show the difference in Hit/Double depends on whether the game is H17 or S17. I mistakenly said DAS.

Also, this difference is for 6 deck games.
In single or double deck game, you would double 11 vs. Ace with either rule.

 

[c_st]

Not all 11's are created equal

For a single deck game I have found, over a period of many times, that basic strategy that suggests doubling with an 11 versus a dealer upcard of 10 has -- for me -- been a losing strategy.

I seem to lose more hands than I win.

Again, I am talking a single deck game here.

Is the basic strategy decision to double with the 11 rather than merely hitting it a very close call?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Gomar S. Tomlinson

The short answer is yes to always double down 11 v Ten when using basic strategy.

You have to realize two key concepts (a) basic strategy is the "most accurate" at the beginning of the deck and (b) not all 11's are the same.

While basic strategy works anywhere in the deck, it's most accurate at the start of the deck. Later in the deck, while basic strategy may still advise you to double down, it may be wrong EV play as confirmed by card counting (11 v T is an indice play) because the composition of the cards have changed, i.e. the count is negative because a lot of tens have already been dealt.

Also, if your 11 is made up of 9,2, then you have one less 9 in your favor and that something to consider. In contrast, if your 11 is made up of 6,5 then you have one less 6 OR 5 for your 11, thus reducing your chances of nailing a 16 or 17.

 

[tedloc]

6 to 5 Favorite

For a single deck game I have found, over a period of many times, that basic strategy that suggests doubling with an 11 versus a dealer upcard of 10 has -- for me -- been a losing strategy.

I seem to lose more hands than I win.

Again, I am talking a single deck game here.

Is the basic strategy decision to double with the 11 rather than merely hitting it a very close call?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Gomar S. Tomlinson

According to Fred Renzy. You are a 6 to 5 favorite to win the hand, meaning you will win 6 and lose 5. The reason to double is that, at the end of the 11 plays you will have twice as much money by doubling. Think of the play like you would, if your favorite football team could use 11 players against 10 for a third and long.

 

[Kasi]

In single or double deck game, you would double 11 vs. Ace with either rule.

Yes, I was referring to the same single-deck game the poster originally asked about.

It was really a rhetorical question lol

 

[Kasi]

The EV for hitting is 0.133 and the EV for doubling is 0.202.-Sonny-

Sorry - just to have to ask to help myself out.

But are you talking about 11 vs 10 in a SD game? I don't see anything close to that so I assume I'm doing something wrong.

Mostly because you're always right!

 

[Sonny]

But are you talking about 11 vs 10 in a SD game? I don't see anything close to that so I assume I'm doing something wrong.

OOPS! I gave the EVs for 11 vs. A by mistake. Thanks for noticing. The correct EVs for SD would be about 0.11 for hitting and 0.16 for doubling, which is a somewhat closer call. The percentages I gave are still correct.

Good eye Kasi!

-Sonny-

 

[Cardcounter]

Single vs multi deck games.

Doubling an 11 vs a 10 is more profitable in a single deck game than on a multi-deck game. In my opinion doubling an 11 vs a 10 is a very close call. It can be modified to a hit if the count is in the negative. But on the average you will have a count of plus 1 with an 11 on a one deck game. Getting an 11 usually requires two low cards. Your best combination is 5-6 because both of the cards don't help your hand much if you where to draw them!