Eighteen Months – The Road to Hibernation

bjcount

Well-Known Member
Eighteen Months – The Road to Hibernation

For nearly my entire life I never thought too much of taking on the store.
I had more important things to do, other ways to enjoy my life, and so many projects that I used my energy towards, the thought of sitting inside, sucking in the smoke, and learning to have a split life just was not my plan.

So I woke up one day, about 18 months or so ago and said, I’m bored, I need something new.

Searching around the web, searching ideas of something to do with myself, I fell upon the idea of Blackjack. Don’t ask me why or how, I just stumbled into it.

I read everything I could find before choosing a strategy to learn. Then I read every book I could find to understand all the different ideas, approaches, math, systems, players thoughts, and betting methods.

Then I found CVBJ and my practice sessions began. I set up my Strategy, set up my optimum betting ramp, and then practiced hours on end for 2-3 months straight. My wife thought I was nuts… and still does, but I wanted to play perfect.

Off I go to hit the stores, I have what I believe a good system, good betting ramp, excellent recall of BS and 90 indices for the game I will attack. So for months and 100’s of hrs, I would grind. For the first 6 months I ended up losing, not quite what I had expected based on all those sims I ran, but it was enough to lower my BR by 20%. Now that BR which I mentioned was a joint BR, something I should have thought about before I started. By, Joint, I mean my wife’s slot play and my BJ.

One Big Mistake:

As my BR is dropping due to the slot play, I decide to up my RoR. How else will I cover those slot loses. Between a huge increase in hours played, I did so many 12hr-18hr sessions I hate now even to think of them, and a jump in my RoR, I was covering the slot play loses but never increasing the BR. Essentially my win rate was equal to the +EV of the game I played but could never outperform the rate of lose due to slot play.

The New Year comes in and it turns out that from Jan – May I’m up a bit over 600 units for the year, but the BR is still depreciating. Wow imagine how pissed I’m getting with the falling BR and my decent win rate.

From the end of May to last weekend I had 3 winnings sessions out of about 20. What a turn around. From up 600 units in May to just up about 80 units now, but the BR is gone.
My one big mistake which many of you will do too is sharing a BR with your wife or girl friend who play's slots. Don’t do it!



I keep reading it on the boards over and over again.
Can I win with a $200 BR?
I’m going with $1,000 what should I expect to win?

Can someone give me a betting ramp for a $500 BR.

Here’s the single answer for all these type questions.

STAY HOME!

Why go risk your money knowing before you even walk in the door that you have a greater than 75% chance of losing? Put it into stocks, let it build, and then when the size of your BR is sufficient to play correctly go fight your battle. Going to battle with a single bullet when your enemy has a fully stocked armory is just suicide.

Maybe you’ll be that 1 in 10,000 that make it with the $200 starting BR, but it most cases, the game you’re playing will never be good enough for that to happen.

If you’ve read about it happening to other players, find out what year they started, because it’s almost a guarantee that if they started with only 200 bucks and made it, they started 20-30 years ago.
They played by the first rule most of us never pay attention to, PLAY ONLY GOOD GAMES, and 20 years ago the good games were more common then today. Why else are so many of the Hall of Famers playing other games such as Poker, because the game of Blackjack ( in many venues) has deteriorated so much it’s not worth their time to play, do you get the hidden message here?

So if you are the fortunate player to have the “Dream Shoe” close by, beat it little by little until the day it dies.

New books get published every year by a player who has beaten the odds, beaten the games, had the discipline, and followed a strict diet of rules. Somewhere you may have read about the players who have lost 1 or 2 BR’s and stayed the course to finally conquer by using different approaches.

You just don’t read about the players losing their BR on here very often, whether it’s pride, shame, or just a sense of humility. Face it, this is a tough endeavor you’re walking into, all the math points the correct way, but it’s how perfectly you can follow those perfect formulas. It’s the decision to what miniscule or reasonable results you are willing to accept, that will make all the difference in the world.

My Journey to the Store will be in hibernation for a while as I rebuild my BR to a point of comfort.

No rant, no whining, no tears, just the plain facts.

Eighteen Months later... no BR but I'm still ahead by 80 units on paper...

Goods Cards To All.

BJC
 
Bjc

bjcount said:
Eighteen Months – The Road to Hibernation

For nearly my entire life I never thought too much of taking on the store.
I had more important things to do, other ways to enjoy my life, and so many projects that I used my energy towards, the thought of sitting inside, sucking in the smoke, and learning to have a split life just was not my plan.

So I woke up one day, about 18 months or so ago and said, I’m bored, I need something new.

Searching around the web, searching ideas of something to do with myself, I fell upon the idea of Blackjack. Don’t ask me why or how, I just stumbled into it.

I read everything I could find before choosing a strategy to learn. Then I read every book I could find to understand all the different ideas, approaches, math, systems, players thoughts, and betting methods.

Then I found CVBJ and my practice sessions began. I set up my Strategy, set up my optimum betting ramp, and then practiced hours on end for 2-3 months straight. My wife thought I was nuts… and still does, but I wanted to play perfect.

Off I go to hit the stores, I have what I believe a good system, good betting ramp, excellent recall of BS and 90 indices for the game I will attack. So for months and 100’s of hrs, I would grind. For the first 6 months I ended up losing, not quite what I had expected based on all those sims I ran, but it was enough to lower my BR by 20%. Now that BR which I mentioned was a joint BR, something I should have thought about before I started. By, Joint, I mean my wife’s slot play and my BJ.

One Big Mistake:

As my BR is dropping due to the slot play, I decide to up my RoR. How else will I cover those slot loses. Between a huge increase in hours played, I did so many 12hr-18hr sessions I hate now even to think of them, and a jump in my RoR, I was covering the slot play loses but never increasing the BR. Essentially my win rate was equal to the +EV of the game I played but could never outperform the rate of lose due to slot play.

The New Year comes in and it turns out that from Jan – May I’m up a bit over 600 units for the year, but the BR is still depreciating. Wow imagine how pissed I’m getting with the falling BR and my decent win rate.

From the end of May to last weekend I had 3 winnings sessions out of about 20. What a turn around. From up 600 units in May to just up about 80 units now, but the BR is gone.
My one big mistake which many of you will do too is sharing a BR with your wife or girl friend who play's slots. Don’t do it!



I keep reading it on the boards over and over again.
Can I win with a $200 BR?
I’m going with $1,000 what should I expect to win?

Can someone give me a betting ramp for a $500 BR.

Here’s the single answer for all these type questions.

STAY HOME!

Why go risk your money knowing before you even walk in the door that you have a greater than 75% chance of losing? Put it into stocks, let it build, and then when the size of your BR is sufficient to play correctly go fight your battle. Going to battle with a single bullet when your enemy has a fully stocked armory is just suicide.

Maybe you’ll be that 1 in 10,000 that make it with the $200 starting BR, but it most cases, the game you’re playing will never be good enough for that to happen.

If you’ve read about it happening to other players, find out what year they started, because it’s almost a guarantee that if they started with only 200 bucks and made it, they started 20-30 years ago.
They played by the first rule most of us never pay attention to, PLAY ONLY GOOD GAMES, and 20 years ago the good games were more common then today. Why else are so many of the Hall of Famers playing other games such as Poker, because the game of Blackjack ( in many venues) has deteriorated so much it’s not worth their time to play, do you get the hidden message here?

So if you are the fortunate player to have the “Dream Shoe” close by, beat it little by little until the day it dies.

New books get published every year by a player who has beaten the odds, beaten the games, had the discipline, and followed a strict diet of rules. Somewhere you may have read about the players who have lost 1 or 2 BR’s and stayed the course to finally conquer by using different approaches.

You just don’t read about the players losing their BR on here very often, whether it’s pride, shame, or just a sense of humility. Face it, this is a tough endeavor you’re walking into, all the math points the correct way, but it’s how perfectly you can follow those perfect formulas. It’s the decision to what miniscule or reasonable results you are willing to accept, that will make all the difference in the world.

My Journey to the Store will be in hibernation for a while as I rebuild my BR to a point of comfort.

No rant, no whining, no tears, just the plain facts.

Eighteen Months later... no BR but I'm still ahead by 80 units on paper...

Goods Cards To All.

BJC
BJC,

What I am reading here is the cause was not your play but the slot problem, that is a difficult thing to overcome.

You are not alone as I have seen so many players come and go, just disappear. I have found that very sad.

Yes, a player needs the fine games and then bankroll and DISCIPLINE, always a battle with DISCIPLINE and EMOTIONS.

You are so right in what you have written. Very Wise. I think what you have said points back to what I and Sage have alluded to in "drinking the Kool-aide". I do however feel very sad in what you have written to us all with such honesty.

I will admit that I also lost my bankroll at one time, not from playing BJ which at that time I played like a vicious machine, but from the fast and loose lifestyle I fell into surrounding the life I led as a semi-pro player with all the temptations that surrounded me. I did give in and almost destroyed myself.:eek:

I hope you do the right thing now BJC, and I know you will, even if it means staying away from the game for some time, maybe a looong time.

Friend CP
 
Thanks for sharing

I think it is good to hear stories about failure as well as success. We all know playing regularly is a grind and while having some nice perks such as time and comps...it really is trying at times.

The rollercoaster ride your bankroll takes can be tough to handle emotionally.

Best luck to you in the future....and keep your bankroll separate!

rock
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
BJC,

By the sound of your post, you obviously DON'T have a gambling problem... That says a ton about your discipline and emotional state. Losing Sucks...Great Post. I will say this in all seriousness... I have lost way more in the stock market than at the tables...(and I'm talking long run) As a matter of fact, the tables have been pretty good too me. Of course that could always change.
It's all about risk and whether or not you can stomach the downside. Its all just a game.

BTW: The wife is probably worth more than the bankroll. I wish I could get mine to go with me at all. :)

-db
 
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bjcount

Well-Known Member
SystemsTrader said:
You split your bankroll with your wife who plays slots and you wonder why you lost? Honestly what did you expect?
Maybe I need to clarify a few things:

Did I say anywhere that I wondered why I lost? "I" ended up 80 units after 18 months all for naught as the BR was decapitated by slot play.

What my expectation is, is to prevent other players from making similar mistakes. To wake up the guests and members to the fact that $200, $500, or even $1,000 bucks is a drop in the bucket to play the counting game correctly. To realize the games and simple ways of yesteryear are long gone.

If your going to consider BJ to be a money making hobby or profession, then give thought into how to address your spouse, girlfriend, etc., whom may be a true gambler at heart.

So while I rebuild I'll continue to study new means and methods to add to my arsenal of weapons to attack the game. In the meanwhile I learned the hard way what changes are required before I go out again.

and just maybe.... someone else will have an eye opening experience from my misfortune.


BJC
 
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johndoe

Well-Known Member
Good post BJC.

I think we all recognize the key to your bankroll longevity in the future is to keep your wife away from the slot machines. Ideally, she'd learn to play BJ properly, but second to that, not playing at all is a lot better than dumping $ into slots.
 

ycming

Well-Known Member
Indeed great post, me and my friend also busted out our very small bank roll. ut the next time we went back with perfect play and countd and a bankroll of £2000, we are now up £1200 (was £2000 at one point) or 240 units.

The down swing is so hard to take, it takes alot of concentration to grind the ****er out and be on the upside again!

As for social life, forget it and I find it extremely guilty speaking to my mother as she thinks i have a problem with gambling and to be honest that is the hardest thing about counting.

Ming
 

no_fear

Member
ycming said:
As for social life, forget it and I find it extremely guilty speaking to my mother as she thinks i have a problem with gambling and to be honest that is the hardest thing about counting.

Ming
Ye... My mom is the same, they worried I'm going to become an addict. Ugh...
 

ExhibitCAA

Well-Known Member
BJC,

You are certainly not alone. I know many players who struggled to win enough to cover the gambling losses of a spouse or girlfriend. The problem is that while you can study hard and practice new methods to increase your win somewhat, heat and exposure will mute that. Unfortunately, on the other side of the coin, the gambling spouse can EASILY increase her losses (especially if you give her more of your increased winnings to play with) without constraint. She can start playing dollar machines instead of 25-cent machines. She can play more hours easily while you are sleeping. She can play two machines at once. There is no bankroll that you can build that she can't bust. You must put a strict limit on her. I know it is easier said than done.

But emotionally, I think you are looking at this the wrong way. I would not even consider her play to be part of "the bankroll." You had a bankroll and a gameplan. You succeeded in growing the bankroll.

Then your wife spent it.

It's no different from if you won money counting cards as an AP, and then your wife went and bought shoes and handbags with it. She spent the money. The danger of course is that this form of "entertainment" (gambling) can get ever more expensive and can eventually consume the credit cards, house, and friends, if left unchecked. You might have learned something about your wife that you didn't know (perhaps a stone you'd rather have left unturned, but oh well).

If she insists on playing when you go on future trips together, I can recommend only two things: (1) A strict loss limit on her play, (2) She should learn some video poker games that can be played near breakeven or even positive with the points/comps. It will help if you can use the Wizard of Odds to show her the actual negative EV of an hour of her slot play. It may help if you can say to her something like: it costs $128 per hour for you to be "entertained" by the Wheel of Fortune slot machine.

She may say that you are a hypocrite for (1), and question why you do not also have a strict loss limit. The answer, of course, is that you are playing with an edge and she is not. Keep in mind, though, that if you need to compromise with her in order to keep peace in the household (and so that she will let you out to play), you can accept a loss limit per trip for yourself, too. This will reduce the hours you can get in, but it does not otherwise hurt your EV. The loss limit for you should not be as strict as the loss limit for her, though. E.g., she is allowed to lose $100 per visit, while you can lose $2000, and you need to make sure that the EV from your play is significantly more than the $100 she is going to lose, or it's not worth the trip. I'm just throwing numbers out there. Keep in mind that this is VERY thin ice you're walking on, and I will be most impressed if you can come up with a solution that works for both of you.
 

daddybo

Well-Known Member
daddybo said:
BTW: The wife is probably worth more than the bankroll. I wish I could get mine to go with me at all. :)

-db

After thinking about it and reading a few more posts (ECAA's in particular).... maybe not. (But mine does raid my bankroll occasionally for Vacations/Shopping) :cry:
 

bjcount

Well-Known Member
ExhibitCAA said:
BJC,

The problem is that while you can study hard and practice new methods to increase your win somewhat, heat and exposure will mute that. Unfortunately, on the other side of the coin, the gambling spouse can EASILY increase her losses (especially if you give her more of your increased winnings to play with) without constraint. ............

But emotionally, I think you are looking at this the wrong way. I would not even consider her play to be part of "the bankroll." You had a bankroll and a gameplan. You succeeded in growing the bankroll.

If she insists on playing when you go on future trips together, I can recommend only two things: (1) A strict loss limit on her play, (2) She should learn some video poker games .........

Keep in mind that this is VERY thin ice you're walking on, and I will be most impressed if you can come up with a solution that works for both of you.
Exhibit CAA,

Excellent points for me to ponder over.

Thank you for the thoughts.

BJC

VP is out of the question... she finds it boring.
 
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Katweezel

Well-Known Member
bjcount said:
Eighteen Months – The Road to Hibernation

For nearly my entire life I never thought too much of taking on the store.
I had more important things to do, other ways to enjoy my life, and so many projects that I used my energy towards, the thought of sitting inside, sucking in the smoke, and learning to have a split life just was not my plan.

So I woke up one day, about 18 months or so ago and said, I’m bored, I need something new.

Searching around the web, searching ideas of something to do with myself, I fell upon the idea of Blackjack. Don’t ask me why or how, I just stumbled into it.

I read everything I could find before choosing a strategy to learn. Then I read every book I could find to understand all the different ideas, approaches, math, systems, players thoughts, and betting methods.

Then I found CVBJ and my practice sessions began. I set up my Strategy, set up my optimum betting ramp, and then practiced hours on end for 2-3 months straight. My wife thought I was nuts… and still does, but I wanted to play perfect.

Off I go to hit the stores, I have what I believe a good system, good betting ramp, excellent recall of BS and 90 indices for the game I will attack. So for months and 100’s of hrs, I would grind. For the first 6 months I ended up losing, not quite what I had expected based on all those sims I ran, but it was enough to lower my BR by 20%. Now that BR which I mentioned was a joint BR, something I should have thought about before I started. By, Joint, I mean my wife’s slot play and my BJ.

One Big Mistake:

As my BR is dropping due to the slot play, I decide to up my RoR. How else will I cover those slot loses. Between a huge increase in hours played, I did so many 12hr-18hr sessions I hate now even to think of them, and a jump in my RoR, I was covering the slot play loses but never increasing the BR. Essentially my win rate was equal to the +EV of the game I played but could never outperform the rate of lose due to slot play.

The New Year comes in and it turns out that from Jan – May I’m up a bit over 600 units for the year, but the BR is still depreciating. Wow imagine how pissed I’m getting with the falling BR and my decent win rate.

From the end of May to last weekend I had 3 winnings sessions out of about 20. What a turn around. From up 600 units in May to just up about 80 units now, but the BR is gone.
My one big mistake which many of you will do too is sharing a BR with your wife or girl friend who play's slots. Don’t do it!



I keep reading it on the boards over and over again.
Can I win with a $200 BR?
I’m going with $1,000 what should I expect to win?

Can someone give me a betting ramp for a $500 BR.

Here’s the single answer for all these type questions.

STAY HOME!

Why go risk your money knowing before you even walk in the door that you have a greater than 75% chance of losing? Put it into stocks, let it build, and then when the size of your BR is sufficient to play correctly go fight your battle. Going to battle with a single bullet when your enemy has a fully stocked armory is just suicide.

Maybe you’ll be that 1 in 10,000 that make it with the $200 starting BR, but it most cases, the game you’re playing will never be good enough for that to happen.

If you’ve read about it happening to other players, find out what year they started, because it’s almost a guarantee that if they started with only 200 bucks and made it, they started 20-30 years ago.
They played by the first rule most of us never pay attention to, PLAY ONLY GOOD GAMES, and 20 years ago the good games were more common then today. Why else are so many of the Hall of Famers playing other games such as Poker, because the game of Blackjack ( in many venues) has deteriorated so much it’s not worth their time to play, do you get the hidden message here?

So if you are the fortunate player to have the “Dream Shoe” close by, beat it little by little until the day it dies.

New books get published every year by a player who has beaten the odds, beaten the games, had the discipline, and followed a strict diet of rules. Somewhere you may have read about the players who have lost 1 or 2 BR’s and stayed the course to finally conquer by using different approaches.

You just don’t read about the players losing their BR on here very often, whether it’s pride, shame, or just a sense of humility. Face it, this is a tough endeavor you’re walking into, all the math points the correct way, but it’s how perfectly you can follow those perfect formulas. It’s the decision to what miniscule or reasonable results you are willing to accept, that will make all the difference in the world.

My Journey to the Store will be in hibernation for a while as I rebuild my BR to a point of comfort.

No rant, no whining, no tears, just the plain facts.

Eighteen Months later... no BR but I'm still ahead by 80 units on paper...

Goods Cards To All.

BJC
That's a great post there, Count. Has honesty, openness, real feelings of pain and loathing, and is expressive and well-written. Well done. It should serve as a sound warning to others of similar circumstance, and of the many unforeseen gremlins that can raise their ugly heads when anyone walks into a casino and... sits down. :1st:
 

haiao

New Member
Only basic strategy works for me

I usually arrive to casino with a BR of $1000-1500, I won more than lost. last 4 times I went, I won in all 4 although not much $500-600/each. Most of the times I could have brought home about $1000-1500, but I couldnt stop at peak until it really hits my stop limit.

I dont count cards, only basic strategies + few basic bet management technique and yes some emotion controls.

Goodluck!
 

daniel27

Well-Known Member
My situation

bjcount said:
Exhibit CAA,

Excellent points for me to ponder over.

Thank you for the thoughts.

BJC

VP is out of the question... she finds it boring.
I play in casino for 9 months and BJ for 4 months , i use a replenisable BR of 2400 units, in a sesion i play about 3 hrs BJ and 10 minutes of craps slot etc for cover and fun, in total casino my balance is 250 units up, in BJ only is 200 units up, my wife play almost everything, and she knows BS in a 90% app, she plays with 100 dollars for sesion and a separate BR of 1000, she is now 600 dollars down, we have a deal when she goes broke she will play only what i allow her and she will have to learn perfect BS, this deal works perfect for now, she does not have a gambling problem and she cares a lot for money , i hope the deal still work when she lost all
Daniel
 
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