ENHC V hole card

[Katweezel]

For those of us accustomed to playing ONLY ENHC (Australia) and contemplating a trip to the land where only hole card is played, is there any player advantage between the two? I ask this because a 'hole card peek' seems to be a valuable addition to an AP's %. In ENHC, where all cards are dealt face UP, that seems to suggest some advantage over hole card play. What are the facts? :cat:

 

[Blue Efficacy]

Hole card advantages

Advantage for AP of more hands per hour, as dealer blackjacks are swiftly scooped up. This also translates to a disadvantage for civilians.

Advantage for all players in that only original bet is lost from dealer BJ.

 

[StudiodeKadent]

Actually, not all BJ in Australia is ENHC. ENHC requires the casino to take all bets if the dealer blackjacks. At least at Jupiters and Treasury here in Queensland, the dealer takes original bets only. Wagers made for splitting and doubling are returned.

 

[Blue Efficacy]

Actually, not all BJ in Australia is ENHC. ENHC requires the casino to take all bets if the dealer blackjacks. At least at Jupiters and Treasury here in Queensland, the dealer takes original bets only. Wagers made for splitting and doubling are returned.

What if you, say, bust both split hands? Do you get one of them back?

 

[StudiodeKadent]

What if you, say, bust both split hands? Do you get one of them back?

If you bust both split hands and the dealer BJ's you still lose your money, I think. I don't remember busting a split hand against a dealer BJ. I guess this would in fact provide a slight advantage to the house, but I don't think it would be a large one, certainly not relative to "dealer takes everything against a BJ including unbusted splits and doubles."

 

[jack.jackson]

If you dont bust(88), and the dealer takes your original bet only, then it should be the same thing as OBO? However, if you did bust and the dealer had a BJ, you could probably make a case for yourself and get a freebie Although I think it would still be technically correct to take those busted bets.

 

[Katweezel]

Enhc

If you bust both split hands and the dealer BJ's you still lose your money, I think. I don't remember busting a split hand against a dealer BJ. I guess this would in fact provide a slight advantage to the house, but I don't think it would be a large one, certainly not relative to "dealer takes everything against a BJ including unbusted splits and doubles."

Yep, if you split 8s V Ace for example, and she makes her BJ, one split bet is returned. Same for double V Ace. In Queensland. :cat:

 

[StudiodeKadent]

Yep, if you split 8s V Ace for example, and she makes her BJ, one split bet is returned. Same for double V Ace. In Queensland. :cat:

Correct, although I'm not sure about whether or not a busted split would be returned (I've never been in that situation, but in order to have mathematical equivalence with Vegas Hole Card rules, a busted split hand would have to be returned on a dealer BJ).

As for Jack,johnson, yes, if you don't bust a split hand against a dealer BJ, it is the same as hole card (assuming you are playing correct BS). However, if you play perfect BS there are still some times where you will bust a split hand against a dealer BJ. Since split aces get 1 card only, split 8's could get, say, a five and a four, and in both situations you would hit against a dealer's ace or ten. This means under perfect BS, OBO-No-Hole-Card is slightly advantageous to the casino. However, it is less advantageous to the casino than ENHC (i.e. Lose-everything-No-Hole-Card).

 

[StudiodeKadent]

Correct, although I'm not sure about whether or not a busted split would be returned (I've never been in that situation, but in order to have mathematical equivalence with Vegas Hole Card rules, a busted split hand would have to be returned on a dealer BJ).

As for Jack,johnson, yes, if you don't bust a split hand against a dealer BJ, it is the same as hole card (assuming you are playing correct BS). However, if you play perfect BS there are still some times where you will bust a split hand against a dealer BJ. Since split aces get 1 card only, split 8's could get, say, a five and a four, and in both situations you would hit against a dealer's ace or ten. This means under perfect BS, OBO-No-Hole-Card is slightly advantageous to the casino. However, it is less advantageous to the casino than ENHC (i.e. Lose-everything-No-Hole-Card).

NOTE: I believe I made a mistake.

Although Australian BJ is no-hole-card, some casinos operate on a strictly original bets only policy, and some operate on an original and busted bets only policy.
OBO: If you bust a split hand, the splitting wager will be returned to you on a dealer BJ.
OBBO: Busting a split hand will cause you to lose the wager irrespective of whether or not the dealer BJ's.
Treasury (and I'd assume Jupiters since they are owned by the same people) is OBO according to the flyer on their website but I will check with them personally later on.

OBO is mathematically equivalent to the Vegas game, wheras OBBO is worse for the player.

 

[StudiodeKadent]

NOTE: I believe I made a mistake.

Although Australian BJ is no-hole-card, some casinos operate on a strictly original bets only policy, and some operate on an original and busted bets only policy.
OBO: If you bust a split hand, the splitting wager will be returned to you on a dealer BJ.
OBBO: Busting a split hand will cause you to lose the wager irrespective of whether or not the dealer BJ's.
Treasury (and I'd assume Jupiters since they are owned by the same people) is OBO according to the flyer on their website but I will check with them personally later on.

OBO is mathematically equivalent to the Vegas game, wheras OBBO is worse for the player.

And note again, I believe I have made ANOTHER mistake,

There are FOUR possible no-hole-card rules and they work as follows:
ENHC: Player loses everything against dealer BJ.
OBBO: Player loses unbusted splits, busted splits and his/her original bet against dealer BJ (this implies that OBBO refers to the original bet per hand rather than the original bet made before the cards were dealt).
BB+1: Player loses busted splits and original bets, but unbusted splitting wagers are returned, against dealer BJ.
OBO: Player only loses the bet made before the cards were dealt, against dealer BJ.

This is ranked in order of worst to best (from the player's perspective).

The confusion between OBBO and BB+1 is unfortunate. I'd consider BB+1 to be more correctly called "original bets and busted bets only" (since I consider the bet placed before the cards are dealt as the "original bet") and OBBO to be called "first bets per hand and busted bets only" (making it clearer that the splitting wager is a 'first bet' for a new hand). However the terminology is, this should be a clear explanation.